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Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

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  • Taking issue with the content of a post is one thing. I objected to the insinuation that anyone new here who posts anything but a JB horror story is a troll or a plant. I suppose it is possible, but seems unfair to assume.

    Equinedriver is doing a great thing coordinating a case for all those who have been wronged. I was disappointed in the remark...I think she/he is better than that.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Roisin View Post
      Taking issue with the content of a post is one thing. I objected to the insinuation that anyone new here who posts anything but a JB horror story is a troll or a plant. I suppose it is possible, but seems unfair to assume.

      Equinedriver is doing a great thing coordinating a case for all those who have been wronged. I was disappointed in the remark...I think she/he is better than that.
      I think its the nature of the beast given the number of alters/trolls/plants JB has thrown at any and every thread about her or her financial wrong doings.

      If JB spent as much time making good and correcting wrongs as she has spent making threats pm'ing and cooking up troll posts she'd be in the clear by now.
      "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Roisin View Post
        Taking issue with the content of a post is one thing. I objected to the insinuation that anyone new here who posts anything but a JB horror story is a troll or a plant. I suppose it is possible, but seems unfair to assume.

        Equinedriver is doing a great thing coordinating a case for all those who have been wronged. I was disappointed in the remark...I think she/he is better than that.
        Yes, if there wasn't such a strong history on this and many other boards of Jill using alters and trolls to post things in her favor I wouldn't have that attitude. Maybe just tired. I am a bit slower at contacting people than I had hoped but I am getting through the list, so if you have PM'd me and I haven't called you yet, hang in there.

        Comment


        • Thank you Equinedriver for your considerable efforts. I am truly hopeful that the number of victims will stop climbing soon.
          McDowell Racing Stables

          Home Away From Home

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Roisin View Post
            PLEASE don't assume those of us who by some crazy luck had a good or OK experience are "defenders", "trolls", etc. It's not fair. This has been a very eye opening thread...upsetting and leaving a number of people wondering about whether we should DNA test or be worried about in-uteros. I am not surprised it brings new posters. If this were a person recounting a bad experience, you'd be all over them with condolences. So, please be fair.
            Important to be not only fair, but also understanding of the process by which people come to terms with news as bad as that which comes with this thread. I'm not talking about being understanding where Jill and her circumstances are concerned: she's earned every bit of scorn and distrust anyone who's been burned by her can muster; no, I'm referring to what just happened when a new poster came on and said their experience was satisfactory but they were taken aback by it all. I can relate to this; both myself and a friend, who is a longtime breeder have used a GFF breeding. In my case, I won a contest, and in my friend's case, she had a mare at the repro specialist DVM where Redwine 1st landed after Jill bought him. Her mare didn't take with frozen, friend saw him there, liked RW's breeding, thought him well put together and since the mare had been an undefeated hunter in her day, bred her to RW. I won a free breeding, but didn't have a mare for any of GFF stallions until I leased one later on. Meanwhile, my friend's mare had an exceptional filly who later won her inspection with some of the highest marks ever given. I was very impressed by the filly, and often said so publicly. One day my friend got an email from an old friend of hers who also had been a noted breeder for years. Seems one of her imported mares landed at Jill's and she was outraged at the manner in which the mare was being kept. Having seen her top filly in a photo online, she warned my friend: "if you knew about Jill, you would never do business with her". She also gave an online link that showed Jill's property was in foreclosure. This was about two years ago, and by that time I'd already leased/bred a mare to RW. I can tell you that initially we both hoped the situation wasn't as bad as the other breeder felt. We, like everyone else, had substantial financial and emotional investments in these foals or future foals, and that is a natural, very human response to bad news: you always hope it turns out less awful than it sounds at first. It's called minimizing. You've heard of the defense mechanism term denial too, I suspect; it runs rampant in this thread! And Jill had been no problem to either of us, in fact had extended herself to us both in a helpful manner. In my case, I then paid GFF and Jill a personal, on-site visit, and knew afterward that I could never again support her business. Seeing is believing. I'll leave it at that, except that the photos at the top of this thread were not a surprise. And then the tsunami of stories posted here relating criminal behavior, extensive pathology, etc., all too frequently seen here on COTH. So, this is my tale of having to adjust to unwelcome news/reality...it was a short process that in my case was facilitated greatest by seeing in person. I can well imagine how much harder it is to accept when you can only read about it online. So please do try to be fair to people who are just beginning to see the light. It won't help to slam them as they struggle to adjust to the fact that Jill's dirty business practices have taken some sheen off of their investments, and watered down their joy along the way.
            www.forwardfarms.com.
            Follow us on Facebook:
            http://www.facebook.com/pages/Forwar...s/192796641203

            Comment


            • Very nicely said Indy-lou. Has your Redwine baby been born yet?

              Can you elaborate a little on what you saw that day? Since you are one of the rare folk who has actually been to her establishment and seen her horses/farm/house, I think it would be beneficial for those still sitting on the fence (and those that think the state of her property is solely due to moving house) to hear about it from someone with first hand experience.

              Comment


              • Thank you, Indy-lou...exactly!

                And "watered down joy" describes exactly how I am feeling. This is my one and probably only breeding experience. And it sucks to find out all this.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Indy-lou View Post
                  Important to be not only fair, but also understanding of the process by which people come to terms with news as bad as that which comes with this thread. I'm not talking about being understanding where Jill and her circumstances are concerned: she's earned every bit of scorn and distrust anyone who's been burned by her can muster; no, I'm referring to what just happened when a new poster came on and said their experience was satisfactory but they were taken aback by it all. I can relate to this; both myself and a friend, who is a longtime breeder have used a GFF breeding. In my case, I won a contest, and in my friend's case, she had a mare at the repro specialist DVM where Redwine 1st landed after Jill bought him. Her mare didn't take with frozen, friend saw him there, liked RW's breeding, thought him well put together and since the mare had been an undefeated hunter in her day, bred her to RW. I won a free breeding, but didn't have a mare for any of GFF stallions until I leased one later on. Meanwhile, my friend's mare had an exceptional filly who later won her inspection with some of the highest marks ever given. I was very impressed by the filly, and often said so publicly. One day my friend got an email from an old friend of hers who also had been a noted breeder for years. Seems one of her imported mares landed at Jill's and she was outraged at the manner in which the mare was being kept. Having seen her top filly in a photo online, she warned my friend: "if you knew about Jill, you would never do business with her". She also gave an online link that showed Jill's property was in foreclosure. This was about two years ago, and by that time I'd already leased/bred a mare to RW. I can tell you that initially we both hoped the situation wasn't as bad as the other breeder felt. We, like everyone else, had substantial financial and emotional investments in these foals or future foals, and that is a natural, very human response to bad news: you always hope it turns out less awful than it sounds at first. It's called minimizing. You've heard of the defense mechanism term denial too, I suspect; it runs rampant in this thread! And Jill had been no problem to either of us, in fact had extended herself to us both in a helpful manner. In my case, I then paid GFF and Jill a personal, on-site visit, and knew afterward that I could never again support her business. Seeing is believing. I'll leave it at that, except that the photos at the top of this thread were not a surprise. And then the tsunami of stories posted here relating criminal behavior, extensive pathology, etc., all too frequently seen here on COTH. So, this is my tale of having to adjust to unwelcome news/reality...it was a short process that in my case was facilitated greatest by seeing in person. I can well imagine how much harder it is to accept when you can only read about it online. So please do try to be fair to people who are just beginning to see the light. It won't help to slam them as they struggle to adjust to the fact that Jill's dirty business practices have taken some sheen off of their investments, and watered down their joy along the way.
                  Well stated! Well done!
                  http://community.webshots.com/user/summitspringsfarm

                  Comment


                  • So well said, Indy Lou. How unreasonable of us to jump on a new poster who hasn't been disappointed to date by her experiences dealing with Jill Burnell and Gray Fox Farm. Anyone coming to this thread would at least begin to read it with a lot of scepticism. It is the research tools naming others' experiences that I hope it's our intent to provide to potential Gray Fox Farm clients.

                    Comment


                    • It won't help to slam them as they struggle to adjust to the fact that Jill's dirty business practices have taken some sheen off of their investments, and watered down their joy along the way.


                      Yes, thanks for the excellent post. I apologize if the new person posting about being skeptical about the negative things posted here are really true is not a troll or alter, but I have to admit, I just assume that anyone with two posts to their credit, given Jill's history of trolls and alters as I noted before, makes me question the source. I am sorry if that offends some.

                      Comment


                      • This thread is doing the rounds on the internet. Don't be surprised if new people who did business with JB want to chime in. Some people probably did have good experiences and nice foals but now have read this thread and have concerns or maybe question the parentage. Indy-lou's post is great. So is Roisin's. Equine Driver is a saint for putting it all together.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by equinedriver View Post
                          It won't help to slam them as they struggle to adjust to the fact that Jill's dirty business practices have taken some sheen off of their investments, and watered down their joy along the way.


                          Yes, thanks for the excellent post. I apologize if the new person posting about being skeptical about the negative things posted here are really true is not a troll or alter, but I have to admit, I just assume that anyone with two posts to their credit, given Jill's history of trolls and alters as I noted before, makes me question the source. I am sorry if that offends some.
                          I'm with you because personally, I don't go searching the internet for information about a business that I had a GOOD experience with. I can't believe that all these new posters were alerted to this thread by people who think JB is being "wronged". That would make twice the no. of happy customers!
                          "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Toadie's mom View Post
                            I'm with you because personally, I don't go searching the internet for information about a business that I had a GOOD experience with. I can't believe that all these new posters were alerted to this thread by people who think JB is being "wronged". That would make twice the no. of happy customers!
                            Right. I think a lot of folks are now forwarding info to their vets and other equine professionals or contacts to get the word out, so it seems word is spreading beyond simple searches at this point. I also want to give a hat tip to Equine Driver for organizing the info and moving forward. Thank you. I appreciate your integrity and ethic.
                            www.forwardfarms.com.
                            Follow us on Facebook:
                            http://www.facebook.com/pages/Forwar...s/192796641203

                            Comment


                            • what to do?

                              I was pointed to this thread by a friend who knew I had a couple breedings to GFF -- after reading it all - I'm in a state of what to do? Here's the background......

                              Back in 2008 - GFF had a deal for reduced breeding fees for her stallions - I got 2 - 1 for Redwine and 1 for Aloha with the intention of using them in the next couple of years. Well life intervened and I lost the mare, moved, decided not to breed for a year, found another mare - proved infertile, yada yada
                              Bottom line I still have the 2 breedings (paid for) and was actually planning on using one of them in 2013 -- obviously after reading all of this - I'm definately reconsidering that plan but my question is ......what can I do about the stud fees I've already paid (a total of $1200 that frankly is a lot of money)? Should I try to get the money back (which doesn't look too promising), forget about it (that hurts), join the group that is amassing information against Jill (seems a little strong since she hasn't done anything to me yet - I'm just not comfortable going ahead with planned breeding) or just figure I won't have any problems and get whatever I can for the money I've already got in (just trying to list all the options - not really up for this one)

                              Any ideas?

                              Comment


                              • I don't think you have a right to a refund if you choose not to use your breedings. You have until next year to use them or sell them. You certainly don't have any right to join the actions against her since you have not been harmed. You can sell them as the contract is transferable but it probably won't be easy to find a buyer.
                                McDowell Racing Stables

                                Home Away From Home

                                Comment


                                • Or you could go ahead and attempt to use the breedings but before going ahead with them: have a discussion with Jill. Let her know that you are fully aware of the information going around about her: the state of her lab, not sending doses when it's needed, etc. Let it be known that if you go forward with her business and promoting foals by her stallions that you expect the service she advertises. Does it mean it's going to work? No it doesnt but asserting yourself and laying it out on the line might actually get her to do right by you. It's worth a try to make the phone call and have the conversation. Request to have him collected at a legit facility that you know will do the right thing.

                                  After your conversation with Jill, if you still don't feel right about it then i'd advise selling the breedings and move on. Even if you take a few hundred dollar loss; it's better than losing your entire shirt on the deal. After reading all of the horrible experiences in this thread- ask yourself if you're prepared to possibly go through this same story?

                                  Comment


                                  • I did look at breeding to Redwine, read Dr Timoney's work on the topic, decided not to. Had included him on a list for someone else to consider.. they went with Popeye. We were lucky I guess.

                                    Hope things work out for those involved.


                                    (haven't read entirely thru this thread it's massive.. are there house guests too ?)
                                    Last edited by Poody; Sep. 4, 2012, 11:18 AM. Reason: spell

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Poody View Post


                                      (haven't read entirely thru this thread it's massive.. are there house guests too ?)
                                      Oh yes. And a couple of awesome crazy thread/poster mashups occur as well. ;-) Well worth the read I assure you.
                                      The ninja monkeys are plotting my demise as we speak....

                                      Comment


                                      • If it was me, I'd forego the breedings. Here's why.

                                        1. If I sold the breedings, I'd be selling them because I knew that GFF has become a disreputable breeder. This is a very different reason to sell than if I simply didn't have a mare. I couldn't, in good conscience, sell breedings to someone under these circumstances. Not to mention that if I sell them, and the next person has difficulties with GFF, and needs to litigate...now I'm dragged back into it.

                                        2. There's no doubt that my vet would strongly advise against using the breedings. If I did so anyway, she'd refuse to to do the repro work.

                                        3. $1200 is alot of money to walk away from. But I'd rather take that hit, and cut my losses than go forward with the breedings. Breeding is expensive enough and risky enough even when things go well. If the mare gets sick because of GFF, now I have bigger vet bills. If dealing with GFF goes bad, now I have to spend the time to make it right. Why add more risk ?

                                        I wouldn't want to knowingly tempt fate with this breeder who has a dirty lab, bad business reputation, and whom I had been warned about well in advance. It's not worth the trouble and worry.

                                        Count me OUT.
                                        Last edited by Mardi; Sep. 4, 2012, 02:06 PM.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by equinedriver View Post
                                          Interesting isn't it, how anyone that is questioning or supporting is a new poster................
                                          Yes, I'm new here. My only point was being I am not seeing this first hand, it is easy for someone to be vindictive over the internet. Someone who has been to her facility knows if that is her place. I am only trying to give some benefit of the doubt somewhere. Not trying to support her- just don't want to jump on the bandwagon till I have all my facts.

                                          Comment

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