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Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

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  • Originally posted by Discobold View Post
    Sorry, I'm just a dumb lawyer. So you purchase a horse that is seriously hurt and neglected and then you use the seller's own attorney to sue the humane society that seized it instead of getting your own attorney? That makes sense

    I DO appreciate the explanation.
    Well, posting things like the above don't make sense b/c you know, you have the timeline wrong The horse was purchased BEFORE the fight and any injury. Or was RS supposed to be prescient and know that would happen? Sigh..facts people, they are your friend.

    So RS purchased a known commodity, got a shipping cert and was waiting on the shipper. Then all hell broke loose, stallion fight, seizure, etc.

    As for the lawyer, my guess is it was easier to simply use a lawyer that was already intimately involved with the case. But yes, from a public perception standpoint, she would probably be better served finding a different lawyer. As for suing, I don't know, if I purchased a horse that was subsequently seized, treated without my consent, kept in a clinic for weeks and weeks and I was then informed that the horse wasn't going to be returned to me as he was evidence as well as some other things, I might be inclined to sue as well. YMMV.

    I have no personal interest in this case although I have met RS in person. I simply hate to see any person or business dragged through the mud based on nothing more than nasty speculation and perhaps personal agendas. It really is quite depressing.

    As for the charity, as I posted, a simple way to stop that line of muck-throwing is simply to post an accounting of where the monies are being spent. Voila - problem solved. I hope it does that, certainly no other witch hunt is needed.
    Visit us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/ranchopampa or our website at www.ranchopampa.com

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    • Perception is everything and everyone and anyone that has anything to do with Jill Burnell pays the price for that perception including apparently the organizations charged with cleaning up her mess. No one is getting away unscathed and no good deed goes unpunished.
      McDowell Racing Stables

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      • Originally posted by nycjumper View Post
        As for the charity, as I posted, a simple way to stop that line of muck-throwing is simply to post an accounting of where the monies are being spent. Voila - problem solved. I hope it does that, certainly no other witch hunt is needed.
        I am not sure Leg Up can post accounting of how the monies are spent past saying $X was donated to MHS.
        How MHS spends it depends on them posting.

        Comment


        • I was responding to your direct comment that "so you purchase a horse that is seriously hurt and neglected and then you use the seller's own attorney to sue the humane society that seized it instead of getting your own attorney? That makes sense (with a rolly face) " and explaining to you that the horse WAS not injured when he was purchased. So maybe knowing that, it might make some more sense.

          As for the rest, I don't speak for RSF and I'm pretty sure it's none of your business, my business or anyone else's business what the details of the transaction were or when money exchanged hands. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter does it?

          As for the rest, I don't know, maybe some due dilligence on MHS part? If the entire COTH world knew, I can't imagine it would have been *too* hard to figure out who owned the horse since ownership transfer paperwork had been filed, shipping arrangements had been made and oh yes, phonecalls to them had been made requesting information from owners.

          As for the rest, please tell me where I said RS should have stayed with JB? Oh wait, I never said that. What I said was that if RS were my horse that I had purchased recently, he was seized by MHS post purchase and they weren't giving me info or releasing him to my expert care (esp given that MHS has no experience with horse care as evidenced by their own annual report) and said horse was sitting in a vet clinic racking up charges, *I* personally would be inclined to sue.

          I don't think MHS is the bad guy here. Nor am I saying the horse's shouldn't have been seized. I do question some of the actions like not releasing the horse but not my horse, not my business.

          What I do again personally find repugnant is that JB is the one who has failed her horses by all accounts. Yet this thread seems consumed by people who want to drag extraneous players through the mud - let's see, the vet that gave RS the shipping cert was smeared, RSF was smeared for purchasing RS, MHS was smeared for confiscating the horse, the auction for raising money, even trainers who have nothing to do at all with any of this had their names thrown in the ring.

          Shrug.. whatever people want to gossip about, facts be damned. Like I said, i just hope that every one of the horses winds up in good homes, the monies raised by the auction go to the purposes for which they were intended and this abomination of a thread gets locked at some point.
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          Comment


          • As I understood it, this is going to be a long and arduous case, resulting in potentially more horses being seized and so forth. This was just the very beginning - it's not over. I was assuming all the monies raised by Leg-Up would go towards the care of current and future horses, as well as the signficant attorney's fees that will undoubtedly result as this drags on... There are more horses in need, so the fight may continue for quite a while.

            To suddenly say that there is something crooked with the whole thing after seeing the vet report seems very short sighted... and probably 90% of what was being thrown around here was speculation anyway, so the funds were being raised blindly anyway if you think of it.

            It is clear that Romantic Star had serious injuries and was not in good body condition. His bloodwork and the report indicate subjection to prolonged starvation. I think I'd tend to be happy his jaw wasn't broken (but I at least saw fractured teeth in the report) instead of jumping on the Humane Society. Sheesh.

            I definitely can see a no good deed goes unpunished situation coming here. Also I red where they mentioned he is a lovely stallion. So much for the rank and crazy reports... lol

            Comment


            • Originally posted by nycjumper View Post
              Well, posting things like the above don't make sense b/c you know, you have the timeline wrong The horse was purchased BEFORE the fight and any injury. Or was RS supposed to be prescient and know that would happen? Sigh..facts people, they are your friend.

              So RS purchased a known commodity, got a shipping cert and was waiting on the shipper. Then all hell broke loose, stallion fight, seizure, etc.
              All hell didn't just break loose (the fight just made it fall off the train tracks quicker)... he had a body score of 3. Hell broke loose when she decided not to feed RS everyday
              Draumr Hesta Farm
              "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
              Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

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              • It was so great to see this thread die for a spell and all the speculation and innuendo and fake facts to halt.

                Its so awful to see this thread be resurrected to continue mindless and baseless attacks on entities that are not JB.

                It is a complicated case that will take a long time to resolve. There are potentially 30 horses involved - many pregnant mares.

                There are civil and animal abuse charges mixed in with land use problems.

                And it is a constantly evolving process - to nit pik and attack at every new shred of "evidence" without taking it in context or understanding ALL the facts is discouraging.

                Please stop posting if all you are doing is to attack and speculate. Let the case evolve without turning this into horsey TMZ. Leave reality TV out.

                Push the keyboard away and ride.

                Comment


                • fwiw, and just to clarify, my question was a general question and not pointed at any specific entity. I happen to know of several Non Profits who have run fund raising campaigns using inflammatory information that later turned out to be incorrect.

                  My gut feeling is that this happens more than we would like... so i was curious about it.....

                  and no, i don't know a non profit attorney to ask - hence my pondering here ....

                  Comment


                  • Thinking on the "holding RS as evidence" thing.

                    Does that really make sense? It's not like he is being maintained in the condition he was in at time of seizure. He's being treated and fed and is, hopefully, well on the way to better health. So MHS presumably has UCD reports, statements, photos, etc. that is really "the evidence". So if new owner can show legal ownership, why not let the guy go to his new home when he is ready to travel?? I'm not sure I understand why he has to be held if he did not belong to JB at time of seizure and the new owner is not guilty of anything regarding his condition (the reason for the seizure).

                    Comment


                    • If I had to guess (only a guess) they do not want to release any of the seized horses because if they say 'oh sure, OK, will ship him to a new owner' it is likely that JB will announce how the others have new owners too. By keeping the horses they have the ability to request reimbursement for their care from JB (though we all know she will never give them a penny even if they are awarded the money).

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
                        Instead of speculating and making an a$$ out of yourself why not just ask the organizers of said auction/fund raiser.

                        Everyone hear sings the praises of the people who organized the Leg up auction all the time . One stallion owner who is suing MHS for reasons we only again can speculate on allows access to a few medical records and suddenly the auction is shady ?? Get a life folks.

                        Those were the medical bills for one horse ..last time I checked there were 3 other horses seized one of which we were allowed to see a few photos of. Based on the deplorable condition ..who knows what sort of care she and the others have needed.

                        BTW if JB wasn't a crook and clearly negligent in the care of her horses , there would have never been need to seize anything. MHS would have never been called to investigate. RS would be hopefully on his way to a much better life and Jill would be going about her day to day not paying bills , scaming people and being the topic of a half a dozen JB did/did not do XZY threads.

                        You all want to kick , scream , pound sand and blame people ...blame Jill.
                        I don't think anyone is NOT blaming Jill. But does that mean the people who have posted false information or launched attacks on people other than Jill are absolved simply because they are doing it in the name of the cause?

                        Someone earlier said it and it bears repeating. Anyone that dares question information or motives is deemed a Jill supporter.

                        When did it become a problem for people to want fact? I have to believe that MHS and Leg Up will use the funds appropropriately, because I have heard nothing to make me think otherwise, but does that mean that I wouldn't appreciate a note from either explaining how they intend to use the funds? of course not. That is not "punishing" them for doing a good thing, that is accountability plain and simple. And something I think even THEY would agree with.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Callmeacab View Post
                          Just because RS posted the vet statement does not mean she is the one who paid the bill. The billing clearly shows that MHS is the one who contracted with Davis for the care. They are the ones who have been paying the bills. Too much going on behind the scenes and too much speculation.
                          Ding! Ding! Ding!


                          Originally posted by FalseImpression View Post
                          It makes me sick to see people doubting the motive behind the auction. Nobody forced anyone to participate. I gave to MHS directly and I am happy I did. If they don't need the money for these horses (God knows where they are and in what condition), then it will go to another needy animal.
                          At the end of the day, whether the Marin Humane Society has extra monies left over or not, this is how I see it; Individuals have been screaming from the roof tops in regards to Jill Burnell for more than a year. Hardly anyone listened. Hardly anyone wanted to get involved. Authorities have been contacted....nobody listened (or maybe they just couldn't do anything about it). The Marin Humane Society listened, and it is because of their dedication and efforts that we may get to see some justice done, and alleged victims may even get to see their day in court. As a result, I'm more than willing to donate money to the Marin Humane Society, if nothing else, to simply say THANK-YOU for being the ones who finally listened and for being the ones who finally stepped up to the plate and did something about this three ring circus. At the end of the day, isn't that in itself worth our donations?

                          I should also note, the Leg-Up Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, so all disbursements of funds are public record at the end of the year. But good effort to those few who are using diversion tactics to try and derail this thread.

                          Off my soap box now!
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                          Home of Welsh Cob stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
                          Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness
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                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Roisin View Post
                            Thinking on the "holding RS as evidence" thing.

                            Does that really make sense? It's not like he is being maintained in the condition he was in at time of seizure. He's being treated and fed and is, hopefully, well on the way to better health. So MHS presumably has UCD reports, statements, photos, etc. that is really "the evidence". So if new owner can show legal ownership, why not let the guy go to his new home when he is ready to travel?? I'm not sure I understand why he has to be held if he did not belong to JB at time of seizure and the new owner is not guilty of anything regarding his condition (the reason for the seizure).
                            I was just going to say this. It's speculation as to the reason MHS still has him. SPECULATION, folks.

                            Meanwhile the MHS continues to monitor the other 20-30 horses (let's not forget them, either). This is going to take time, the wheels of the courts system are not swift, as anyone who's dealt with them surely knows. It's too bad, for the horses and all those involved, that this isn't resolved quickly, but realize it's in the courts, now, and has to be played out legally.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                              If I had to guess (only a guess) they do not want to release any of the seized horses because if they say 'oh sure, OK, will ship him to a new owner' it is likely that JB will announce how the others have new owners too. By keeping the horses they have the ability to request reimbursement for their care from JB (though we all know she will never give them a penny even if they are awarded the money).
                              This isn't about the money. The MHS isn't a collection agency. They don't hold onto an animal until someone pays up (that would be ransom, for crying out loud). It's about the welfare of the animal/s.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Callmeacab View Post
                                This isn't about the money. The MHS isn't a collection agency. They don't hold onto an animal until someone pays up (that would be ransom, for crying out loud). It's about the welfare of the animal/s.
                                Let me add to what I posted, they can not disperse animals until they belong to them (MHS). As far as they know the horses they seized belong to JB. They are waiting for the courts to figure the whole mess out.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by horsenut93136 View Post
                                  I don't think anyone is NOT blaming Jill. But does that mean the people who have posted false information or launched attacks on people other than Jill are absolved simply because they are doing it in the name of the cause?

                                  Someone earlier said it and it bears repeating. Anyone that dares question information or motives is deemed a Jill supporter.

                                  When did it become a problem for people to want fact? I have to believe that MHS and Leg Up will use the funds appropropriately, because I have heard nothing to make me think otherwise, but does that mean that I wouldn't appreciate a note from either explaining how they intend to use the funds? of course not. That is not "punishing" them for doing a good thing, that is accountability plain and simple. And something I think even THEY would agree with.
                                  I do not disagree with you AT ALL. Again if you read my first post I suggested that those theorists simply just ask Leg Up for a current update.

                                  Perhaps my issue is with the few voices who immediately used the publication of RS's medical records to imply there was underhanded or additional motives.

                                  To suggest that the whole thing was cooked up as some pissing contest between stallion owners to quote the ironic author "Krazee".

                                  To be quiet blunt if they were simply concerned abolishing the competition it would seem counter productive to raise money to attempt to care for them/rescue them see them out of JB's hands. They would have been better served to keep their mouths shut and hands tied and let JB neglect and starve them to death , which based on the assessments and condition of a few was a ball already rolling.
                                  "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by nycjumper View Post
                                    I was responding to your direct comment that "so you purchase a horse that is seriously hurt and neglected and then you use the seller's own attorney to sue the humane society that seized it instead of getting your own attorney? That makes sense (with a rolly face) " and explaining to you that the horse WAS not injured when he was purchased. So maybe knowing that, it might make some more sense.

                                    As for the rest, I don't speak for RSF and I'm pretty sure it's none of your business, my business or anyone else's business what the details of the transaction were or when money exchanged hands. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter does it?

                                    As for the rest, I don't know, maybe some due dilligence on MHS part? If the entire COTH world knew, I can't imagine it would have been *too* hard to figure out who owned the horse since ownership transfer paperwork had been filed, shipping arrangements had been made and oh yes, phonecalls to them had been made requesting information from owners.

                                    As for the rest, please tell me where I said RS should have stayed with JB? Oh wait, I never said that. What I said was that if RS were my horse that I had purchased recently, he was seized by MHS post purchase and they weren't giving me info or releasing him to my expert care (esp given that MHS has no experience with horse care as evidenced by their own annual report) and said horse was sitting in a vet clinic racking up charges, *I* personally would be inclined to sue.

                                    I don't think MHS is the bad guy here. Nor am I saying the horse's shouldn't have been seized. I do question some of the actions like not releasing the horse but not my horse, not my business.

                                    What I do again personally find repugnant is that JB is the one who has failed her horses by all accounts. Yet this thread seems consumed by people who want to drag extraneous players through the mud - let's see, the vet that gave RS the shipping cert was smeared, RSF was smeared for purchasing RS, MHS was smeared for confiscating the horse, the auction for raising money, even trainers who have nothing to do at all with any of this had their names thrown in the ring.

                                    Shrug.. whatever people want to gossip about, facts be damned. Like I said, i just hope that every one of the horses winds up in good homes, the monies raised by the auction go to the purposes for which they were intended and this abomination of a thread gets locked at some point.
                                    There are legal public documents that JB filed stating RS was hers and requesting him back and to be left alone by the Marin Humane Society....... It was denied by the judge. I would review the document on ratemyhorsepro.com, this is terrible to use a person so far away. If I were that person I would absolutely seek new council. The humane society had requested on several occasions for owners the horses to contact them

                                    Comment


                                    • Good God. What a feeding frenzy.

                                      Unlike some of you, I actually am in contact with Leg-Up and was told that all funds raised in the Auction for MHS will go to MHS as stated and marked to be used first for their expenses associated with the JB mess. While I highly doubt there will be any funds left over when this mess is final, I would assume that any balance would then be used by MHS as they see fit.

                                      At some point in the auction, Leg-Up notified everyone that any FUTURE auction items would be used for ANOTHER horse seizure case. I feel certain that it will

                                      And like someone mentioned before, Leg-Up is a 501(c)(3) charitable organization. ANY member of the public can ask for a copy of their year end accounting to see where all monies go. So, next year ask for a copy.

                                      Folks, the people at Leg-Up are people I've dealt with for many years. It's not like they would (or could) raise a bunch of money under one stated purpose and then use it for something else. And the fact that one of the Board members happens to own some stallions does NOT make them jealous stallion owners wanting to destroy some other innocent stallion owner. That is ludicrous.

                                      Chill out. There is nothing underhanded going on with Leg-Up.
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                                      • And to answer MBM's question regarding donations, any funds donated to a non-profit for a specific purpose are considered "restricted funds" and must be utilized for the designated purpose. The wording when the donation was made would be the guiding factor- ie, whether it was for "veterinary bills," "treatment," or "expenses related to," would have a significant impact on what the funds could be utilized for. For example, "veterinary fees" would be very specific, while "treatment" could potentially cover everything from bandaids to farrier to feed, and "expenses related to" could be anything from staff pay for time spent on a case to legal fees to vet fees or feed.

                                        I'm sure an organization such as Leg-Up is well-versed in dealing with restricted funds, since they have taken restricted donations in the past (ie. for Eddo Hoekstra). Let's at least try to have a little faith.... Why did we donate if we didn't trust them to administer the funds?

                                        It seems weird that a new poster shows up, throws about some totally unverified allegations about RS being "just fine" and now we all suddenly believe a pot-stirrer who has 18 posts under his/her belt? We've been griping about JB for 220 pages and now suddenly a few carefully-worded incendiary posts have people ripping apart TWO charitable organizations who are trying to help these horses? WTF.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Sonesta View Post
                                          Good God. What a feeding frenzy.

                                          Unlike some of you, I actually am in contact with Leg-Up and was told that all funds raised in the Auction for MHS will go to MHS as stated and marked to be used first for their expenses associated with the JB mess. While I highly doubt there will be any funds left over when this mess is final, I would assume that any balance would then be used by MHS as they see fit.

                                          At some point in the auction, Leg-Up notified everyone that any FUTURE auction items would be used for ANOTHER horse seizure case. I feel certain that it will

                                          And like someone mentioned before, Leg-Up is a 501(c)(3) charitable organization. ANY member of the public can ask for a copy of their year end accounting to see where all monies go. So, next year ask for a copy.

                                          Folks, the people at Leg-Up are people I've dealt with for many years. It's not like they would (or could) raise a bunch of money under one stated purpose and then use it for something else. And the fact that one of the Board members happens to own some stallions does NOT make them jealous stallion owners wanting to destroy some other innocent stallion owner. That is ludicrous.

                                          Chill out. There is nothing underhanded going on with Leg-Up.
                                          It will only let me like this once.

                                          Great post!

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