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Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

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  • Originally posted by loshad View Post
    Poniponipony is the alter of someone who posts regularly on COTH in the SHB forum on matters related to equine reproduction, like many stallion owners, but who apparently doesn't wish to stand behind her unbelievably classless and crass post trashing another stallion owner for the high crime of <shudder> purchasing a stallion.
    As one of the parties who regularly posts on equine reproduction on this board and is a stallion owner, I would like to clarify if the claim is directed at me, it is incorrect. I spoke with Ronda by telephone two days ago. I was candid with her and told her my opinion of the transaction. I said it to her face. I have no reason to repeat it on this Bulletin Board to people who have no direct involvement.
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    • Originally posted by COTHalter44 View Post
      I think this because I am entitled to my opinion, as is everyone here, including yourself.
      but repeating it over and over goes nowhere except to enflame. because of course the people who stand behind RSF are going to come to her defense.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by horsenut93136 View Post
        but repeating it over and over goes nowhere except to enflame. because of course the people who stand behind RSF are going to come to her defense.
        I went back and looked. I've mentioned it exactly 3 times. I will stop, but I can't shake the feeling that something is "off" here.

        Also, I don't dislike RSF and she does seem to have a great program, but the "under the table" support of JB is disappointing.

        Comment


        • For those who live in Jill's area, I am curious to know if many vets use electronic coggins? Almost all the Texas vets that I know now use them. For those unfamiliar, they require three photos, one of each side and a head shot, that are taken on the day the blood is pulled and they appear on the coggins certificate. You can download them from any computer after about 48 hours with a log in and password. Very handy. I suspect Romantic Star's coggins was the old yellow type but if photos were taken they sure would be interesting to see.

          As far as timing, fwiw, I can put a horse in the trailer, drive to my vet, and have a coggins and health certificate in my possession in a little over an hour (the old yellow type, not electronic). I do realize that you need to have a good relationship with your vet to do this, but the point is that it is not a difficult task to get a coggins and/or a health certificate if the vet has a credit card to charge.

          Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...
          Sheila Armstrong, Stone Creek Sport Horses, Dallas, TX
          Proud half owner of the KWPN Stallion TORONTO
          https://www.facebook.com/TorontoStallion/
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          • Well, you're right, something is *off*, but it's the whole damn industry and how bloody slack we are about all of it. I hate it.

            That dirty table was enough for me. I would be so pissed off if I knew that I had a mare inseminated with semen collected and handled by someone with that filthy of a set-up.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by COTHalter44 View Post
              I went back and looked. I've mentioned it exactly 3 times.
              Make that four.
              "...it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

              Comment


              • And anyone who thinks that this type of mess doesn't reflect on our ENTIRE breeding program nationwide should think again.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
                  As one of the parties who regularly posts on equine reproduction on this board and is a stallion owner, I would like to clarify if the claim is directed at me, it is incorrect. I spoke with Ronda by telephone two days ago. I was candid with her and told her my opinion of the transaction. I said it to her face. I have no reason to repeat it on this Bulletin Board to people who have no direct involvement.
                  I have followed this thread from post one.
                  With that being said having met you and interacting with you it would never cross my mind that it was you Kathy. Jos either. You both have way too much class for that.

                  Comment


                  • I honestly have no clue why *anyone* who isn't the horses seller/buyer, has any business having a vocal opinion about said sale/purchase? what the hell?

                    Comment


                    • Please stop bickering. Can we get back to helping these horses? First and foremost, they should be the priority.
                      ~Amy~ TrakehNERD clique
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                      • I have totally stayed out of this until now. Jill has lovely stallions and mares and I hope all of them land in great homes if that is the case. No horse should be starved or neglected. I have always wanted a Red Wine foal, but it will never happen.

                        Concerning RSF-Ronda I am appalled at some of the posters slamming her. She purchased a lovely stallion to stand that fits her breeding program and how is she to know the condition of the stallion when he is in California and she is not. Ronda is a top breeder, honest, hard working, and generous. Her horses are taken better care of than some of the posters' horses are. This thread has really turned into a total disaster. Shame on some of the posters.
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                        • How did she know the condition of the horse when she doesn't live there? Gee I don't know, you go see what you're purchasing. And I'm not trying to be mean to anyone. I see a big failing here in that very few breeders or purchasers of horses from JB actually went to her set up. I don't really care about California and small set ups, babies and young stock should have much more room.

                          I mean at the very least if I'm shipping my mare somewhere for services I'm going to have to visit first. Those are just my stupid little rules. I can tell you had I visited the original 2.5 acre "farm" she would not have gotten my money. I know I know, America is so big. Yup I get it. I've criss crossed it many times driving. But you know what we as breeders get to vote with our money who we will use. SO's and sellers don't make money without us. Maybe people should start caring a bit more than glossy photos and start making a visiting trip before breeding. And visit something you might purchase. Heck most of us have someone we trust living near SO's. Start being a bit more picky and start thinking beyond the stallion in question. Does this person deserve my money? This stallion fits my criteria but what about the set up. What about the mares, how are they treated? Youngstock? Am I the only one who thinks this could have stopped earlier if people actually went to JB's place? Or is it just me who really gives a crap?

                          I just don't think this would have continued as long as it has if more people cared about the other details as much as the stallion they use. But most are happy enough to get semen and a pregnant mare. Want to prevent this from happening again then start caring about the other details. And for that I'm afraid you need to do more than look at a website. For me it's the whole horse care package I'm afraid. It's not how fancy but how it all works.

                          Terri
                          COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                          "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

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                          • What bothers me is why didn't Sonoma County do anything. I know they're laxer on zoning and codes, but come on, 30 horses on 2 acres? I KNOW that's against agricultural code, even for Sonoma. Surely the poor neighbors complained to deaf ears at the city and county, which is unacceptable. I'm disgusted with Sonoma County and I think they have some explaining to do.

                            Comment


                            • Very good point Callmeacab .

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Equilibrium View Post
                                How did she know the condition of the horse when she doesn't live there? Gee I don't know, you go see what you're purchasing.

                                Terri
                                RSF is obviously capable to fly to Belgium to buy young horses, fly to OK to visit the stallion test, fly to FL to show at WEF. I"m sure she could have easily hopped a plane to see the stallion in person. Not like she's without the means to do so.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by CathyKb View Post
                                  I have totally stayed out of this until now. Jill has lovely stallions and mares and I hope all of them land in great homes if that is the case. No horse should be starved or neglected. I have always wanted a Red Wine foal, but it will never happen.

                                  Concerning RSF-Ronda I am appalled at some of the posters slamming her. She purchased a lovely stallion to stand that fits her breeding program and how is she to know the condition of the stallion when he is in California and she is not. Ronda is a top breeder, honest, hard working, and generous. Her horses are taken better care of than some of the posters' horses are. This thread has really turned into a total disaster. Shame on some of the posters.
                                  If you are a total novice you might purchase a breeding stallion – without checking the condition of the stallion and the quality of his semen. An experienced breeder would not. If you are new to horses, if you just fell off the turnip truck, you might purchase a stallion that has been in JBs care… and expect to be received with flowers and warm wishes for great success in making $$$ off the stallion. RSF is not new to this situation… at the very least she understood what was going on, she has even posted on this thread. She knew how her conduct would come across. What she is doing is a big “[edit]” for those who have stepped up to help and she knows it. Defending what she did is insulting to those who have stepped up… and gave from their pocket books simply because it was the right thing to do, with no benefit for themselves. For the very reasons that ponyponyponi stated, what RSF did is offensive, plain and simple. I would claim authorship of ponyponyponi’s post if I could.

                                  With respect to GFF and those like her, what we have seen over the years is a group of financially marginalized breeders, with stars in their eyes, who manage to get a hold of retired mares - who have some show record. They then use the glossy photos of previous performance success to make up a website and impress the public. Look at GFF’s website. I can think of others. It is a business model that preys on a naïve public and exploits mare owners who haven’t the room or the interest in keeping horses that can no longer compete. These GFF type breeders have not actually owned and competed the horses they now make money off of. It’s like a get rich quick scheme. Maybe if these folks actually footed the bills, and suffered through all it takes to make a successful performance career, they might value things a bit differently. At the very least, they might stop collecting more horses when they already have more horses than they can afford to care for. We have no respect for any of them, we see them as parasites…
                                  Last edited by Moderator 3; Jan. 13, 2013, 10:22 AM. Reason: to remove profanity
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                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Cartier View Post
                                    If you are a total novice you might purchase a breeding stallion – without checking the condition of the stallion and the quality of his semen. An experienced breeder would not. If you are new to horses, if you just fell off the turnip truck, you might purchase a stallion that has been in JBs care… and expect to be received with flowers and warm wishes for great success in making $$$ off the stallion. RSF is not new to this situation… at the very least she understood what was going on, she has even posted on this thread. She knew how her conduct would come across. What she is doing is a big “[edit]” for those who have stepped up to help and she knows it. Defending what she did is insulting to those who have stepped up… and gave from their pocket books simply because it was the right thing to do, with no benefit for themselves. For the very reasons that ponyponyponi stated, what RSF did is offensive, plain and simple. I would claim authorship of ponyponyponi’s post if I could.
                                    ^^^^
                                    This.
                                    Last edited by Moderator 3; Jan. 13, 2013, 10:22 AM.

                                    Comment


                                    • So if someone who doesn't breed places a successful, retired performance mare in a breeding home, that is bad? If they turn her out to live out her life with cookies and pats, American breeders are not able to use improved bloodlines going forward. Are you all willing to damn the whole lot because GFF is a disaster? Has anyone else that has purchased a horse from Jill been vilified? Wasnt everyone glad that the rest got new homes? Even as small time as I am, I have bought horse sight unseen and certainly people breed successfully all the time off video, performance records or other offspring to stallions they will never set eyes on. Not just in the sporthorses world.
                                      Trinity Hill Farm

                                      Comment


                                      • AHEM!!!!!

                                        http://www.legup-auction.org/cgi-bin...gory=stallions

                                        Just in case we've forgotten what we're trying to do here.
                                        If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.
                                        Desmond Tutu

                                        Comment


                                        • Wow - so it's totally offensive to buy a nice stallion that is a good fit with your breeding program? And even worse for the stallion to be put into a good and ethical breeding program where mare owners will have access to him and trust they are getting what they paid for? Yes, I can certainly understand the shock and horror displayed by certain posters here. (insert giant eye roll).

                                          Well, if nothing else, this thread has served to further my "wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole" list of stallions and their owners. The list might start with Jill but it sure isn't finishing there.

                                          I have to say, this thread has prompted me to report posts to moderators for the first time ever.
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