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Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

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  • I just wanted to say what a great bunch of stallion owners. Stepping up to the plate for burned MO's and the auction. Incredible.

    Ise, the first thing you learn in Europe is that papers, or passport as that's what we have, IS NOT, determination of ownership. I know a horse here that runs on a replacement passport given by the registry. The original is still held by a sales company in England. 90k is owed on the horse. The registry said it had nothing to do with the auction company. But as is law, the passport must be with the horse at all times wherever it goes. Therefore a passport is not an ownership document.

    Under general instructions in my Irish passport, it says "this document remains the property of the issuing authority. In no case whatsoever can it be accepted as a deed of ownership".

    In the TB registry. This passport is issued to ensure that a horse can be identified at all times and as such must accompany the horse. The passport is not a deed of ownership. It is the property of the issuing authority and can be recalled at any time.

    From the KWPN: This passport is not a title-deed. For competitive purposes, the present owner of the horse must be registered as such. Change of ownership shall be reported to the organisation that issued the passport.

    Yes, people like to think they're title deeds, but they are not in reality.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

    Comment


    • Should add, unless competing, very few people actually do register the horse in their names. Well you must for breeding too. It's not a smart thing to do. When you buy one get a bill of sale and then register with the proper authorities. The passports just identify the horse you bought. Much easier over here as all horses must be identifiable. If they aren't, don't touch them.

      Terri
      COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

      "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

      Comment


      • Terry a bit different in Germany as we have passport (to stay with horse) and Certificate of ownership.

        (Which in the end is also in quite a few cases not the final proof that the person holding it in hands is owner for courts ...)
        I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
        www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
        2017: March: Filly by Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - SPS Prince Thatch
        May: Finnigan - Sandro Hit - SPS Rouletto

        Comment


        • This all is rather cool - if the reason behind it would not be sooo sad !!!!

          It is the same sort of amazing thing as the purchase of the horse of eventer Sara Algotson from Sweden.
          The horse was developped by her, but owned by others.
          She just started to be quite successful on this mare called Mrs. Medicott.
          She was put up for sale and friends of hers gave out word on it on FB.
          They set up a bank acocunt in Sweden and got word out on it. People transfered money to it some very small amounts, other bigger.
          The Swedish three day eventing riding fans collected as much as needed to buy this talented 3day event horse ! And the price was not small !

          So hopefully this kind of activity happening here regarding Jill's ill behaviour will be as much of a success story as the one regarding Sara's horse.
          Hoping all the best for all horses with her no matter if their name is Grand Affair, Federalist or whatever !

          I could offer help after horses are taken, paperwork missing and have german brands to try to find out their identity. No idea if I can be successful, but at least I could try and were needed pay for it over here.
          I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
          www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
          2017: March: Filly by Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - SPS Prince Thatch
          May: Finnigan - Sandro Hit - SPS Rouletto

          Comment


          • Ok! I have officially bid on a little bit of everything.... Don't know what, if anything, that ill win, but what a fun and talented group of stallions!

            Comment


            • Yup, I have a owner cert from KWPN. TB registries and ISH I do not. My info is in the computer as being the owner when I registered at birth and then the one when I registered her for breeding. It's just too many people think papers equal ownership.

              Terri
              COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

              "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

              Comment


              • Happy New Year, Everyone! I'm not a breeder and had never heard of JB until I opened this thread a few weeks ago, but have followed it on and off. It has been eye-opening, sad, infuriating, contentious at times, and disheartening at times. But in the end good people persisted, and wonderful people came through. Though it has never affected me personally, it affects me as a member of the horse community, so I want to shout out a huge THANK YOU to the OP, the Marin County officials who got involved, Kathy St. Martin and everyone else who is doing something now to make something good come out of this mess

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ise@ssl View Post
                  Peskee - did you buy a farm? As far as ownership not having anything to do with who has the papers - don't go to Europe with that mind frame. The person with the original papers for warmbloods there IS THE OWNER.
                  ise, yes, thank you,we do have a beautiful farm. We are surrounded by wonderful friends that have helped to make it happen. We are not in Europe, People are questioning the law in the US not Europe. Our mare Lestera, who was an International competitor came with passport but her papers had been lost in the shuffle of owners. I had to track them down to reactivate her status with KWPN to breed her. I owned the mare with a bill of sale but I needed to get the original papers to get her back in the KWPN books. So as I said ownership in the US is determined by Bill of Sale not original papers. Quote from KWPN secretary,"Ownership is determined by Bill of Sale but you must have original regristration papers and the Bill of Sale to get her updated and reapproved in our books".

                  Comment


                  • What a great list of donations! Kudos to everyone involved!

                    I have a question about one of the stallions, though. Balt'Amour is described as a Holsteiner stallion, but isn't he actually registered with RPSI?

                    Comment


                    • I did send an email to the link provided, but have also donated a photo session, for anyone in the midwest area. I know how hard it can be to get good photos and video.
                      Tracy Geller
                      www.sixpoundfarm.com
                      Find me on Facebook!

                      Comment


                      • Can the most pertinent info that affects mare owners or others be posted as a sticky at the start of the thread so the info is not lost?
                        "The sea was angry that day, my friends - like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli"

                        Comment


                        • Folks, if you bid in the auction, PLEASE be generous. This is a find raiser for a very worthwhile cause, not a yard sale. Your bid is also tax deductible. Bid often and as much as you can! Those donating services, semen or other items receive none of the funds raised. So, please bid generously.
                          Mary Lou
                          http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                          https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                          Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                          Comment


                          • With the auction with the breedings is that the one that donates the funds for the horses and then the winner gets the breeding? I would like to donates since I never had a contract for my mare. Just want to help out.

                            Comment


                            • Gotcha! I think its great everyone set this up! Growing up in NorCal its isn's cheap to keep a horse! So every dollar helps! My Dad still has one horse at home and he pays at least $10 a bale for hay.

                              Comment


                              • If you are not breeding and see nothing in the auction that appeals, you can also donate directly to the humane society, with a note that you wish the donation applied to the Gray Fox Farm case.

                                Originally posted by Deardra75 View Post
                                Gotcha! I think its great everyone set this up! Growing up in NorCal its isn's cheap to keep a horse! So every dollar helps! My Dad still has one horse at home and he pays at least $10 a bale for hay.
                                Mary Lou
                                http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                                https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                                Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                                Comment


                                • I just sent an email to my step mom to help with the fund raising!

                                  Comment


                                  • This is the last time I am going to post on a public board referencing Grand Affair. For the record, there is NO bill of sale for Grand affair signed by me selling the horse to anyone. I never issued one, and retained all her paperwork for non payment by Jill Brunell. Any Bill of Sale with my name on it is fraudulent and being investigated by authorities in CA. Currently sitting on the DA's desk in Marion county. As you all know forgery, is easily proved by handwriting experts, and against the law. Legal action is in motion in both States. I've been breeding and selling horses for over 18 years. I would never ever issue a Bill of Sale without receiving funds. Yes, I have an attorney here, and CA. I'm making it known, that anyone else claiming they own this mare, is sadly mistaking. If anyone paid Jill Brunell money for this mare, you better ask for a refund. I'm going to get my mare back, and I won't rest until I do. Those are the facts in reference to Grand Affair.
                                    www.hunterspeaksporthorses.com

                                    Comment


                                    • This is the last time I am going to post on a public board referencing Grand Affair. For the record, there is NO bill of sale for Grand affair signed by me selling the horse to anyone. I never issued one, and retained all her paperwork for non payment by Jill Brunell. Any Bill of Sale with my name on it is fraudulent and being investigated by authorities in CA. Currently sitting on the DA's desk in Marion county. As you all know forgery, is easily proved by handwriting experts, and against the law. Legal action is in motion in both States. I've been breeding and selling horses for over 18 years. I would never ever issue a Bill of Sale without receiving funds. Yes, I have an attorney here, and CA. I'm making it known, that anyone else claiming they own this mare, is sadly mistaking. If anyone paid Jill Brunell money for this mare, you better ask for a refund. I'm going to get my mare back, and I won't rest until I do. Those are the facts in reference to Grand Affair. .


                                      so confusing because on previous closed thread you said you sold the mare to JB and didn't mention non payment.

                                      I don't post much on boards. However, this is a topic near and dear to my heart. My beloved mare Grand Affair was sold to Jill. I sold her based on the fact that her "reputation" at the time was stellar. I sold her the mare, and was promised she would have a good home forever, and if she couldn't keep her anymore, she would come home to me to retire. .

                                      Comment


                                      • it sounds to me like the mare was sold on terms and the terms were never met.

                                        in any case the legal folks will hopefully straighten this mess out. ?

                                        Comment


                                        • I can see why you are confused. However, when one defaults, sold, no longer applies. Once again, thus no bill of sale was ever issued. Show me the Bill of Sale that will hold up in a court of law with MY signature on it. They can't, no one can. Why, because it doesn't exist. Honestly, why would I be spending a lot of money on attorney's for a horse, if I wasn't able to prove everything in my post?
                                          www.hunterspeaksporthorses.com

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