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Sir Donnerhall over Donnerhall granddaughters?

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  • Sir Donnerhall over Donnerhall granddaughters?

    I've seen several high quality Sir Donnerhall sons and daughters recently that are out of mares by De Niro or by other Donnerhall sons/grandsons. We just have to think about Sir Gregory who is by Sir Donnerhall and out of a Don Gregory mare.

    What would need to be closely considered when that kind of linebreeding is done?

    What are the undesireable traits that might be found on the resulting foal due to this particular doubling of Donnerhall?

    What defaults on the mare has to be considered as a no-go?

    Les Écuries d'Automne, Québec, Canada
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  • #2
    I'm curious to see the answers to this thread... I considered breeding my Don Gregory mare to Sir Gregory last year, but the feeling i got from asking around was that it would be too close for comfort. Mare is retiring from breeding this year, so I'll never see that cross unless I win the lottery and can attempt an ET!


    • #3
      The Sir D foals I have seen out of a variety of mares are typically elegant, long lined, and quite fancy with a lot of "look at me" spark. They also have tended to be somewhat sensitive and a bit shy, and most of them have given me the impression they will be best suited for professionals or very, very good amateurs who don't mind some flash and sizzle.

      While the doubling up of Donnerhall certainly worked in Sir Gregory, the risks are that you may get a bit of an old fashioned foal, with a fair bit of substance and heavyness of body, along with a slower hindleg (although usually capable of taking collection). I would breed a Don Gregory mare directly to Sir Donnerhall (or another good Sandro Hit son), rather than double up on Don Gregory.


      • #4
        Doubling up on Donnerhall is starting to be a "nick" in Germany. Furstenball comes to mind. There were several Sir Donnerhall horses out of "D" line dams in the mare show and the Young Horse classes. Woodlander Farouche is Fuerst Heinrich/DiMaggio.
        As stated above, the "S" can be sensitive and the Donnerhall can be slower with the hind leg. But the doubling seems to also strengthen the work ethic from what I have observed.
        I would not double Don Gregory though, not because of the Donnerhall, but becasue of the "G blood. Double "D" and double "G" is almost asking for a heavier type of horse.
        I am trying this myself next year-a Don Principe/Rotspon daughter in foal to Sir Donnerhall
        Maryanna Haymon- Marydell Farm - Home to Don Principe & Doctor Wendell MF
        2012 USDF Champion Breeder! 2007, 2011 USEF Champ Breeder
        2009,2010,2011 USDF Res Breeder of the Year!


        • #5
          My Don Frederico gelding is out of a Donnerhall granddaughter. He is very, very Donnerhall (good and bad) down to being huge and liver chestnut. He's only 18 months so who knows how it will work under saddle but it's ... a pronounced similarity.

          I'm pretty sure I'd breed my Sir Donnerhall/Weltmeyer filly to Donnerhall relations down the track. I think Furstenball would work over her really well actually.


          • Original Poster

            While the doubling up of Donnerhall certainly worked in Sir Gregory, the risks are that you may get a bit of an old fashioned foal, with a fair bit of substance and heavyness of body, along with a slower hindleg (although usually capable of taking collection).
            Do you think that it is the Sandro Hit blood that helped to overcome that heavyness possibility? And that might be why doubling up on Donnerhall via Sir Donnerhall is a more and more popular nick? SH can be quite strong in passing on type and refinement no?
            Les Écuries d'Automne, Québec, Canada
            Visit EdA's Facebook page!


            • #7
              Originally posted by Spike View Post
              Do you think that it is the Sandro Hit blood that helped to overcome that heavyness possibility? And that might be why doubling up on Donnerhall via Sir Donnerhall is a more and more popular nick? SH can be quite strong in passing on type and refinement no?
              Yes, in Sir Gregory, I absolutely think it was the Sandro Hit blood that overcame the heavyness that may have come from Donnerhall/Don Gregory. He actually has a very interesting pedigree, though. His dam is DOUBLE Graphit/Grande, but HER damsire had a lot of blood through his TB and AA grandsires. So maybe it was the SH blood acting in concert with that TB/Anglo-Arab blood that proved the magic combination for Sir Gregory.

              And MH made the point I was alluding to earlier - double Donnerhall and Double Graphit/Grande would basically be ASKING for heavy and old fashioned, so again, I would NOT put a Don Gregory mare to Sir Gregory.


              • #8
                You can go to Nancy Holowesko of Crosiadore Farm's website and see "Dallas" her chestnut filly by Sir Gregory. The mother has Donnerhall, so the foal has Donnerhall three times. Yes, I would not say the filly is super refined, but she is still very nice type, excellent gaits ans super upper level potential. I am not saying that I am endorsing three times Donnerhall, but at least with Sir G, if you have the right mare, I would not exclude it just because of pedigree. I think Nancy's mare also had G, so it might have even been triple D and double G in that filly.


                • #9
                  My Donnerhall granddaughter EM Diotima (by Donnerschlag) had an absolutely stunning colt by Sir Donnerhall in 2012. I was also concerned that this may be too much Donnerhall, but once I saw the colt all of my worries went away! This colt is by far the best foal I've produced. Very long legged, balanced, super uphill and 3 international quality gaits. He sold at 3 weeks of age to a professional rider. Unfortunately I had already sold the mare otherwise I would just do this cross over and over again.


                  • #10
                    We have seen tons and tons of foals in Germany that have multiple hits back to Donnerhall and you wouldn't know it to look at them. A quick glance at the pedigree seemed like two or three times back to him but further review showed that he was back there way more than that. Maybe not as much line breeding as the holsteiner folks, but they are definitely doing it.


                    • #11
                      I have seen double or even triple Donnerhall that has worked well.

                      my only .02 is to be careful with the canter - that they are quick enough behind in the canter with the inside hind leg coming under (so hard to judge on a foal of course) if you are going to double or triple up Donnerhall make sure there are some "canter' genes in there too


                      • Original Poster

                        I am toying with the idea of trying ET next year with our De Niro mare. Her Fidertanz baby from this year is strikingly good looking and we did rebred her to Fidertanz for 2013. If we get a copy of this year's foal, we will probably go again for a 3rd Fidertanz in 2013, but we'd love to try ET with another stallion and Sir Donnerhall keeps coming back in my mind for her again and again. Hence the question about doubling up Donnerhall quite close.

                        Her Fidertanz colt from this year can certainly uses himself quite well in canter. Time will tell better as you say kdavies He is not on the small side, will certainly be tall (like all the other foals out of this mare) and has a big, strong engine. He is typey and has a lovely, refined expression like his dad (people kept thinking he was a GIRL lol... not anymore thought). I have to update his pics on my website.

                        I generally make my breeding decisions in the hopes of keeping a filly one day, so my choices needs to be to my tastes and needs as a breeder, as well as marketable if I decide to offer the foal for sale.

                        I love more and more the Donnerhall blood and it seems that I am not the only one. It fits perfectly in my perfect definition of what I want to breed: horses with talent, yet rideable for the majority of the riders out there, without limiting their aspirations in dressage, good looking, not too Thoroughbredish nor too coarse neither. Intelligent, not always the biggest mover, but so gifter undersaddle. They probably have their faults too, but it seems that I find fewer in them lol!!
                        Les Écuries d'Automne, Québec, Canada
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