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Now Or Never and his sons?

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  • Now Or Never and his sons?

    especially Wilton and Uccello?

    We had a Wilton in for training/sales and he is a very big moving horse with an absolutely huge canter. Good hind leg, really round moving. A very compact type as well. Is this typical of this sire line? He sold to a very competitive dressage stable in Florida.The breeder said that the dam of this horse was more of a hunter type mover. That got me interested in Wilton and then I was looking at Uccello and I really like his type.

    I love the newly licensed Viscount by Valentino :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP43mIT76ig
    and he jumps beautifully too it seems.

    So, what does this sire line bring? Any comments?
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

  • #2
    I will be able to tell you about Valentino first hand in the Spring. My maiden Catoki/Contender/Sao Paulo mare is in foal to Valentino. Valentino frozen is very good. I used one dose on the maiden mare.

    Forgot to add http://landgestuetcelle.de/cms/front...t=16&idart=165

    Check out his breeding values on the bottom of page. He adds a lot!
    Last edited by bluemoonfarms; Aug. 3, 2012, 07:59 PM. Reason: Added breeding values
    It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on.”
    ? Marilyn Monroe

    Comment


    • #3
      I have always loved Valentino from the first time I saw him - age three. He is very elastic and has swing. Very good movement for a jumping horse. Would consider him as a stallion I would choose on a versatile mare. Friends of mine consider him as a nice horse but none that contributes to top class jumper breeding. I do not know - I am no jumper breeder. He himself is competing consistantly well.
      Friends of mine have a mare that can reall jump. She is Valentino - Cashmann. She does not look like Valentino though. She is longlegged and of very good frame. She has a halfsister competing on ** Level internationally (Am not sure how high that is). She is temperament wise on the hotter side. I would say that is from Cashman.
      I saw Ucello as a young horse and remember being impressed by an elastic nice moving stallion with swing. We actually went to the stallion show to see Celle's at that time new Sandro Hit - Pik Bube. And were really impressed by this guy instead. I have not seen offspring though, but as said I am no jumper breeder , so that is no negative thing, as I do not really go out and search for certain offsrping to get an opinion...
      I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
      www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
      2017: Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - Prince Thatch and Finnigan - Sandro Hit - Rouletto

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Bluemoon, make sure to post pics when it is born! I looked into Catoki as well and he looks like an interesting (and beautiful) stallion. Do you have pics of your mare?

        Alexandra , thank you for that info. I am not a jumper breeder either but am interested in finding a good jumper bred stallion that will bring more roundness to the front end and a bigger canter to one of my dressage mares. I just don't want to loose swing and I don't want a stallion with a slow hind leg...so this is good to hear that both stallions use their bodies well.
        www.svhanoverians.com

        "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

        Comment


        • #5
          http://youtu.be/J5iFgpsLO9s

          a little bit of jogging trot at the end:
          http://youtu.be/wxvixFKrayU

          http://youtu.be/IdVQBwO2apA
          I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
          www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
          2017: Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - Prince Thatch and Finnigan - Sandro Hit - Rouletto

          Comment


          • #6
            Here is a link to some pics of Cobrah. Cobrah, Catoki/Contender/Sao Paulo, is currently 3 yrs old and in foal to Valentino.

            https://picasaweb.google.com/1129773...eat=directlink

            If this link does work please let me know and if you click on the thumbnails the pics will enlarge. Thank you....
            It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on.”
            ? Marilyn Monroe

            Comment


            • #7
              Uccello is gorgeous, and looks very tall!

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF4GUwx6YWY

              Comment


              • #8
                One of my favorite topics!!!

                There is one right here in the US, Vallado (now being shown as Praise). There are several standing for the Hanoverian Verband from the same mother line / breeder. Most are from Saros xx or Belisar (Saros xx son) mothers. We love all our Vallado offspring ... they are incredibly rideable and talented. Vallado's son, Validation was exported to Germany for competition a couple of months ago. He has been doing really well winning several 5 year old young jumper classes including one on Friday with a score of 9.0. He has also been approved by the Hanoverian Verband. http://service.vit.de/pferd_praesent...erteilungsplan

                I am looking forward to seeing how the Valentino offspring do in the future, in particular Viscount. http://service.vit.de/pferd_praesent...erteilungsplan

                Here are the ones that I know of:

                Toronto (Now or Never M / Belisar)
                Vallado (Now or Never M / Saros xx)
                Validation S (Vallado / Lansing)
                Valentino (Now or Never M / Belisar)
                Viscount (Valentino / Acorado)
                Van Helsing (Valentino / Stakkato)
                Uccello (Now or Never M / Saros xx)
                Victorio (Uccello / Graf Top)

                There were a few others that were approved, but disappeared (probably were gelded and/or went to sport).

                Interesting to note that the Dutch haven't approved several of these stallions yet they have gone on to be very successful for breeding at the Hanoverian Verband. When I spoke to them about presenting Vallado, I was told that the pedigree was not interesting for them. Perfect example of needing different stallions for different mare bases.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Bluemoon, your filly is lovely

                  Showjumper, how do yours move? Would you consider them good movers from a dressage perspective?

                  I also really like Viscount, he moves beautifully and looks gorgeous! (obviously the jump is nice too):

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP43mIT76ig

                  I hope he is offered frozen next year!!
                  www.svhanoverians.com

                  "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    With the right mare, you should get gaits good enough for upper level dressage. Typically, the walk and canter are very good. Ours have all been bred for the jumper ring and are from Holsteiner mothers, so as you can see not really bred with dressage in mind.
                    Vallado / Lansing / Capitol I / Sacramento Song xx
                    Vallado / Calido I / Alcatraz / Caletto II
                    Vallado / Latano II / Montanus / Fantus
                    Vallado / Askari / Lord / Masetto

                    Next year, we are using Vallado frozen with our Con Caletto / Ramiro / Ahorn Z mare. Very excited about this breeding!!

                    Here are some videos -

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQugqIIEOXI
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVxN0seFw5Y
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYlHF0L_5c0

                    We only have one foal on the ground from Validation and he is from the Calido I / Alcatraz / Caletto II mare. He is really, really special. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater

                    I can't say enough about this bloodline and it such a shame that it is being overlooked. The four Vallado foals we bred have all been hands down keepers.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This is a Vallado / Goodtimes / Calvados / Ramiro gelding that I bred, shown at 3yrs. He is currently starting his career under saddle in the Baby Green Hunters.

                      http://youtu.be/OvYFjembPsM

                      I really like the versatility in the line, and agree the Viscount stallion is really cool too.
                      Tracy Geller
                      www.sixpoundfarm.com
                      Find me on Facebook!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by showjumpers66 View Post
                        With the right mare, you should get gaits good enough for upper level dressage. Typically, the walk and canter are very good. Ours have all been bred for the jumper ring .
                        The pic of my Catoki mare (in foal to Valentino) was taken at a local Dressage Schooling Show. She did walk/trot classes and did not miss a step. Great mind. The judge really liked her and felt she has very good talent for Dressage. This mare is very good in the jumping Shute and her foal will show what type of Broodmare she is in the Spring. It will be very interesting to see how the Valentino foal turns out.
                        It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on.”
                        ? Marilyn Monroe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have seen, a little bit late, that you are interested in the Now or never warm blood line. I am owner of the stallion Victorio. We are breeding privately with him. We have all ready from our own mares, Victorio x laptop, Victorio x For Edition, Victorio x Espri, Victorio x Liostro. All of them are great foals. Our mares are pregnant again this year with him. Some private breeders has come to us to ask for his semen. Then, there are some other foals around, but not Hugh quantity. Victorio is in sport at the moment. He is 6 y.o. and is doing a great work. He shows his talent everyday. Very quick in front, and a perfect technic over the jump. We will be in Lenaken for the worldwide young horses championship in Belgium.
                          We are quite sure we will see him in Brasil 2016 !!!!
                          Before to start with Victorio, we got a filly from Now or Never x Laptop. She got the prize as best foal in the Hessen state final 2 years ago. Amazing!.
                          If there is some one interested to breed with Victorio, we will be very very happy to attend petitions.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Donella, not sure if you go to the fall sale but a few years ago there was a filly by Toronto. I adored her. Not big but a very good jumper and nice mover. If I were looking for a two year old I would have bought, as it was I had to sit on my hands. I immediately started looking at the Now or Never line for one of my mares.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Has anyone seen any Wilton foals? He seems like a nice type and I like the versatility demonstrated in his stallion test scores. I have a Federweisser x Weltruhm mare that I am looking to cross with a versatile stallion. I have no illusions of trying to breed a top showjumper with her dam's breeding being primarily dressage. The mare is very typey and elastic-moving but could use more power and while she is quite modern herself, could use more blood as she produces a bit coarser than herself. Given Federweisser's versatility, though, I would love a powerful, good moving (but fairly modern) jumper-bred stallion to produce a dressage prospect that might have reasonable jumping ability as well. Thoughts on Wilton? Is there a reason he is not a more popular sire?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                The notes on Wilton state he is not approved for the Hanoverian Verband. He is, however, fully approved KWPN. That is most likely the reason, since he is marketed through Celle - which is Hanoverian territory.
                                Practice! Patience! Persistence!
                                http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/
                                https://www.facebook.com/MariposaSportHorses/

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I have a 4 yr Wilton mare and I LOVE HER!! I started her last year and was having so much fun that I never wanted to get off. She is powerful, naturally balanced and her rhythm is so fixed that I think she has a metronome built in her head. I would have liked to do the 4 yr old FEI classes this year, but she had a baby. I can't WAIT to wean the parasite and get her going again.

                                  I am totally in love with this horse and I hope that Wilton would be used more!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by rodawn View Post
                                    The notes on Wilton state he is not approved for the Hanoverian Verband. He is, however, fully approved KWPN. That is most likely the reason, since he is marketed through Celle - which is Hanoverian territory.
                                    Why would Wilton be available through Celle if he is not Hanoverian approved? I just received the Canadian Hanoverian Celle semen order form with the list of available stallions and thought I'd look more into Wilton since I don't know much about him. That is disappointing.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Copied from his page on Celle.


                                      Wilton bay KWPN NLD003NL0312093


                                      Zuchtinformation Bild

                                      breeder: Morssink,F.J. NL 5963 NS Hegelsom Tongerloseweg 32

                                      date of birth: 19.05.2003


                                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      Not approved for Hannoveraner Verband e.V.


                                      Link to his page:
                                      http://landgestuetcelle.de/cms/front...t=16&idart=183


                                      While MOST of Celle's stallions are Hanoverian Verband, not all of them are. They do carry Dutch lines as well as other stallions who are only approved in their original registries. They also carry sport pony stallions, which are not part of the HanV.

                                      The breeding industry is one that must be malleable to the demands of the consumer, and I would guess that Celle would be no different. They market their stallions for around the world and while they primarily promote the Hanoverian Verband, they do have stallions they have purchased, or alternatively, stand outside stallions on behalf of owners, who are not approved Hanoverian.

                                      My guess, is perhaps they purchased the stallion hoping to present him at some future date. I would think that if the sale of semen for a non-HanV approved stallion still warrants the expense of keeping him, then they'll keep him and market him towards markets who can use him. That's my guess.

                                      If you have your heart set on Wilton, don't just give up. EMAIL the Verband and ASK them if they will allow his foals to be registered. The horse is standing at Celle, maybe there is some agreement. HanV sometimes bends a bit to suit the specific and unique needs of CANADA. My mare was sired by an imported Han stallion, but not approved by HanV, and who was shown specifically in Hunter in North America, a sport that HanV does not consider. However, because he did so extraordinarily well in Hunter and his offspring are doing so well in sport, such that he is consistently in the top 10 USEF Hunter Sire list, they bent the rules for me - they accepted my mare and will register her foals. Canada is a UNIQUE market and HanV recognizes this uniqueness.

                                      So, always, always ASK! You might be surprised.
                                      Last edited by rodawn; Oct. 23, 2012, 12:35 PM.
                                      Practice! Patience! Persistence!
                                      http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/
                                      https://www.facebook.com/MariposaSportHorses/

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by rodawn View Post
                                        Copied from his page on Celle.


                                        Wilton bay KWPN NLD003NL0312093


                                        Zuchtinformation Bild

                                        breeder: Morssink,F.J. NL 5963 NS Hegelsom Tongerloseweg 32

                                        date of birth: 19.05.2003


                                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        Not approved for Hannoveraner Verband e.V.


                                        Link to his page:
                                        http://landgestuetcelle.de/cms/front...t=16&idart=183


                                        While MOST of Celle's stallions are Hanoverian Verband, not all of them are. They do carry Dutch lines as well as other stallions who are only approved in their original registries. They also carry sport pony stallions, which are not part of the HanV.

                                        The breeding industry is one that must be malleable to the demands of the consumer, and I would guess that Celle would be no different. They market their stallions for around the world and while they primarily promote the Hanoverian Verband, they do have stallions they have purchased, or alternatively, stand outside stallions on behalf of owners, who are not approved Hanoverian.

                                        My guess, is perhaps they purchased the stallion hoping to present him at some future date. I would think that if the sale of semen for a non-HanV approved stallion still warrants the expense of keeping him, then they'll keep him and market him towards markets who can use him. That's my guess.

                                        If you have your heart set on Wilton, don't just give up. EMAIL the Verband and ASK them if they will allow his foals to be registered. The horse is standing at Celle, maybe there is some agreement. HanV sometimes bends a bit to suit the specific and unique needs of CANADA. My mare was sired by an imported Han stallion, but not approved by HanV, and who was shown specifically in Hunter in North America, a sport that HanV does not consider. However, because he did so extraordinarily well in Hunter and his offspring are doing so well in sport, such that he is consistently in the top 10 USEF Hunter Sire list, they bent the rules for me - they accepted my mare and will register her foals. Canada is a UNIQUE market and HanV recognizes this uniqueness.

                                        So, always, always ASK! You might be surprised.
                                        Good to know, and good advice. Thank you, rodawn!

                                        Comment

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