• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

What bloodlines specifically do you like to see in your TB sporthorse?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What bloodlines specifically do you like to see in your TB sporthorse?

    Being a small Thoroughbred sport horse breeding farm, we have been looking more closely into bloodlines for sport in the last couple of years instead of looking only at well-known racing names. I know that there are some lines that are known to excel in jumping and eventing and we have been trying to incorporate some of those lines into our breeding program, but sometimes finding well bred mares for sport horse breeding can be difficult.

    Now, every time we look at a potential broodmare, I want to see something that stands out; for example Roberto, Graustark, and Blenheim.

    I personally like to see Fappiano, even though his sire is Mr. Prospector.

    What lines do other TB sport horse enthusiasts like to see? (Feel free to chime in Vineyridge )

    And another thought - I know that the European, New Zealand and Australian Thoroughbreds are popular with eventers. They really seem sturdier with heavier bone. It would be great if we could get some of those mares into this country to add some sturdier distance blood into the US Thoroughbred gene pool.
    Fox Haven Farm, Inc.
    Home of 2002 JC Registered stallion Artrageous

    Artrageous has his own Facebook page!

  • #2
    I personally like to see Cox's Ridge up close, preferably through his son Vanlandingham. I havent met a Vanlandingham that I haven't LOVED everything about. Great brains, big boned, big moving horses. But, I'll take Coxs Ridge just about any way I can get it. I know that some people have problems seeing swaps, especially doubled up, the thought being that he's known for tough horses, but I've actually loved having Swaps in the mix, and do not mind having more than one strain of it.

    Buckpasser is another that Alot of sport people lust after. I have mixed feelings about him and his sons/daughters. He sure puts one heck of an athletic horse on the ground, but with the phenomenal jump comes one heck of a buck and I've found they can be buggers to get backed. Once backed, however, they tend to be smart, quick thinking individuals with more jump than you'll ever need, and good form to boot. It's the getting backed part that can be fun.

    I love Turn To, In reality, Graustark, Roberto, Key To The Mint, His Majesty, No Robbery, Saddler Wells. When I can find a horse with what I would call an "old pedigree", up close (first three generations), I'm especially happy as the stallions input on the particular horse is less potent the farther back they are.

    One other note. I do tend to put Alot of stock into the horses tail female family. Most people get hung up on the big name stallions, and forget to look into the female family, and it's traits. I actually prefer seeing a really good mare (la troienne, for example) doubled up somewhere, than seeing three strains of Mr Prospector, or Northern Dancer, or the like.

    Johanna
    Www.duforteventing.com
    "Animals can sometimes take us to a place that we cannot reach ourself"

    ** Support the classic Three Day Event! Ride a Long Format **

    Comment


    • #3
      Take a look at this pedigree on a 3yo CANTER gelding. It's just about perfect.

      http://www.pedigreequery.com/mr+good+guy

      Tail female is to Sceptre and Maid of The Mist.
      "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
      Thread killer Extraordinaire

      Comment


      • #4
        Buckpasser and Sir Gaylord, particularly on the dam side. Alydar on either side.

        We like our horses sensitive if not hot and very forward. Not everyone, particularly in a sales situation, likes that combination.

        Comment


        • #5
          Sir Ivor (so Sir Gaylord as above) - he is hugely respected in Europe and somehow many of his decedents seem to be similar in type - very athletic !

          my mare is Wolkentanz I x Sir Ivorson (Sir Ivor) and she is amazing!

          Comment


          • #6
            I should add, that one of my biggest concerns is a great brain, with an exceptionally willing, "yes ma'am" attitude. People sometimes assume that an upper level horse has to be a fireball....hot and only had a forward button installed. I would take a professional, no nonsens, "yes ma'am" horse any day. Especially when I'm breeding for the upper levels. I am a professional, but I don't want the pro ride. My breeding program and pedigree preferences reflect this. I absolutely want to like my horses, and enjoy having them in the barn. For me, this means a phenomenal brain is an absolute must to stay in my program. I've yet to find a downfall to a horse with a great brain and a bit less 'go'. But then again, i like a bit of a 'kick on' ride. Don't get me wrong, I want a horse who will take me to the fences, move off my leg, with a killer, ground eating gallop, good paces, scope, and solid form over fences. I just don't want the fire breathing dragon that Alot I people really like riding, and assume will make the best upper level prospects.

            Johanna
            "Animals can sometimes take us to a place that we cannot reach ourself"

            ** Support the classic Three Day Event! Ride a Long Format **

            Comment


            • #7
              Being a Byerley Turk fan, I look for Ambiorix/Tourbillon etc. Hard to find.

              Comment


              • #8
                QH - that's the "rideability" in the equation. There's a big difference between "sensitive and forward" and "runaway insane." Megan's favorite horse right now is one that was not well liked at his last location - but she describes him as "the best I've sat on in 6 years."

                Unfortunately, many don't understand the difference. We've had more than one fabulous ride that others had failed on. Reins are not brakes, they're lines of communication.

                And there's a big distinction between "smart" and "dumb." I'm not talking about trainability - our last 2 advanced horses, one was smart and the other dumb. Takes a totally different ride. Both were superb at their job, but with the wrong rider both would have failed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'll add Blushing Groom to the mix as one I'm always happy to see.
                  If you believe everything you read, better not read. -- Japanese Proverb

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Secretariat- I definately get the difference between hot and sensitive, and Crazy runaway. I certainly wasn't implying that the hot and sensitive ones don't make upper level prospects, just that I don't care to ride them. I also make an effort not to breed for hot and sensitive, as those are not traits that *I* want in my horses. I also get that there are some very good horses who would not have succeeded with one rider, but have done amazingly well with another. I have good friends who love the same ride that Megan does, and do exceptionally well on horses I would have passed up. Certainly the top prospects all have to be trainable to an extent, or noone would get very far. For me if comes down to preferring to ride an SUV or Truck over a Ferrari. I like a good looking (but I actually have a soft spot for a big, coarse head), bigger boned (but not heavy), very professional, classic THoroughbred, bred for distance/staying power and for the grass.

                    My retired Advanced horse, whom I took to NAYRC CCI** (long format) and medaled with, would all but fall asleep in the start box. I would have to egg him on a bit during he count down, but the minute he was on course, he was quick across the ground, very rideable, and would take me to the fences. He, however, was a bit of a kick on type ride, and wanted to know you were up there, and in control. He thrived on being told what to do, but could still do all of the thinking if I got us into a bad distance, or was on the buckle jumping into a Combination (all of those things that YR's will do). He was agile, and a quick thinker when he needed to be, but had no qualms with mom calling the shots (so long as they were good decisions on my part). Even When he was ** fit, a 5 yr old kid could have bounced around on him all day long. That's the brain I strive for in my breeding program. Above all, nothing rattled him, and he is a complete and utter saint in my book. Just a few weeks after his last advanced (he was double clean xc and SJ and finished 2nd to Courageous Comet), he ran Beginner Novice with one of my friends at her first HT ever, and had time faults (not speeding tickets) on XC.

                    I want 30 of him in my barn, please!!

                    Here is his pedigree, just an example of what I look for.

                    http://www.pedigreequery.com/diamondham

                    One of our Broodmares, Gold Coast Kris, who consistantly puts a classic style foal on the ground when bred to a variety of TB stallions.

                    http://www.pedigreequery.com/gold+coast+kris

                    Also, Secretariat, I really adore the pedigree of Nemos dam, Moonlight Memories. I was actually the under bidder when Megan bought her. I didn't realize it was her bidding until she walked out, having the exact reaction I would have if I had the chance to buy Diamonds dam. She is actually the same tail female family as the mare I posted above.

                    Short story long.....And now back to your regularly scheduled post...

                    Johanna
                    "Animals can sometimes take us to a place that we cannot reach ourself"

                    ** Support the classic Three Day Event! Ride a Long Format **

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What A Pleasure (and his dam Grey Flight)
                      his son Foligno is one of my favorites

                      Olden Times
                      The Axe (and a few others by Mahmoud)
                      Sir Gaylord
                      Hoist the Flag (really Tom Rolfe)
                      Tourbillon
                      In Reality
                      Herbager (and his son Grey Dawn)
                      Mill Reef
                      Saddler Wells


                      Lots of others too. I tend to like a rangy type but with a powerful hind end.
                      ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        These names are getting farther and farther back in pedigrees, but I always want to see Nasrullah, Princequillo, Royal Charger, Sir Gaylord, Somethingroyal Umidwar, Turn-to, and look to see more than one cross to them if possible.

                        I am very excited about the prospective foal of this young mare

                        www.pedigreequery.com/trinity+creek
                        who is in foal to A Fine Romance
                        www.pedigreequery.com/a+fine+romance
                        A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          QH - AMEN!! But saints don't come along very often, and the rest of us have to struggle with what we can get.

                          Fred - You nailed it - especially the Sir Gaylord on the damside. Looks like a perfect nick for AFR!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            QH - re: Moonlight Memories, it's a small world!! We definitely love her pedigree, and it's a pretty good sign for a Sporthorse dam when their firstborn is an Advanced horse!

                            Have you seen the pix of her latest foal? Worked like hell to get him here, but he's simply spectacular - by the DWB Consul. Best foal in my 50 years of breeding, and that's comparing to world class progeny by Windfall, Riverman, Catherston Dazzler, Fleetwater Opposition, Fabuleaux, etc. Those foals are wonderful, but this one seems to have been a special nick - probably end up being a plow horse.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'll add Crimson Satan
                              Richard, Approved Black KWPN Stallion
                              Website
                              and Facebook page
                              Oh Kaptain Underpants SFS, Approved BRp pony stallion
                              Website and Facebook page

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                QHeventer-- how about this one? Another poster liked it but really don't know anything about it. I would love to hear another opinion. Looks like he has some bloodlines for eventing?

                                http://www.pedigreequery.com/yoh+zachary

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Blandford, tudor minstrel, wild risk, aureole, blandford, did I mention blandford? Blue Larkspur, Vaila and Padilla, mieuxce, fair play, rose leaves, to market, native dancer, nodouble, double jay, star kingdom, never bend, hawaii, bold bidder, agnes, pretty polly, queenie, Elf, Upas, Ksar, both nimbuses, teddy by the dozens, RAN, Relic, Bonne Cause, spy Song, Count Fleet, Swaps, Best Turn, even some of the No. Ders and Mr Ps--there are lots more, including many more mares, but this will do for a start.
                                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                  Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by shrpshooter View Post
                                    QHeventer-- how about this one? Another poster liked it but really don't know anything about it. I would love to hear another opinion. Looks like he has some bloodlines for eventing?

                                    http://www.pedigreequery.com/yoh+zachary
                                    Tail male to Ribot in a 2005?! Holy shit! Don't see that very often--love it!

                                    I'll let Viney go through this page--I suspect she'll really like it!--but there's nothing not to like about it. Where did you FIND this horse?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Oddly enough, it's the same tail female line as the sire's dam in Mr. Good Guy, IIRC. It is. They both branch from Vega daughters.

                                      Yoh Zachery has a truly wonderful pedigree, except for the tail female line for about eight generations. There really isn't a sterling mare after Frillery.
                                      "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                      Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        While I love all these old names mentioned, it's getting harder and harder to find them up close. And one thing I remember from a very grueling Genetics class in college is that past the 4th generation, it's so dilute that it probably doesn't matter.

                                        -Parents 50/50
                                        -Grandparents each 25%
                                        -Great Grandparents each 12.5%
                                        -Great great Grandparents each 6.25%. (Meaning 93.75% of the genetics likely comes from somewhere else.)

                                        Now, there are prepotent lines, which may trend down a long ways. But seeing one name waaaay back there means very little to me, statistically.


                                        I'm finding myself studying "current" sires and lines a lot more, trying to pick out trends and the ones who produce what I like. Fortunately, being in Lexington and working on TB farms for a few years let me see a lot.

                                        Of more recent sires, I like:
                                        Pleasant Colony-- tend to be long-legged, uphill, big gallopers and above-average movers. Knew one personally who did very well in YEH and evented to intermediate.

                                        AP Indy-- gosh the good ones are so athletic. The ones I've known had good minds, too. It helps that AP Indy saw a lot of really nice mares, so you're not likely to see many duds. He has quite a few sons at stud, and some are more successful than others, but it's a bit early to tell which exactly will make good sport horses...but I'm optimistic. I have an AP Indy grandson who greatly resembles API moreso than his sire; this isn't uncommon, in my experience.

                                        Pulpit, by AP Indy-- they seem to be stamped with nice front ends, beautiful arched necks and shoulders. Some of them are kinda short with chunky pony bodies, but those with legs are super nice...and most of them are athletic, chunky or not.

                                        Langfuhr-- usually have big, huge shoulders, big hips, and an enormous walk. If they aren't too big for themselves, pretty nice movers and jumpers.

                                        Fappiano and his relateds-- it's hard to go wrong with Fapp relatives: Quiet American, Comet Shine, Unbridled, etc. Unbridled's Song himself gives me pause, but the rest of them make me happy. All seem to have great proportions, nice toplines, good solid horses and overwhelming success in sport.

                                        Sadler's Wells-- he's made a tremendous amount of nice turf horses, and some super jumpers too. I'm a fan of his son El Prado, too...usually pretty proportionate. And another who makes yummy-looking kids: Medaglia D'Oro, by El Prado.

                                        Storm Cat-- yeah they can be headcases, but also athletic, cat-like, and some are great movers. I'm not crazy about most SC sons at stud...I run away from Giant's Causeway, for example, but it depends on the horse. I've liked a few Hennessy's-- but I love Hennessy's dam (by Hawaii). SC on the mare side is highly variable...some are nice, some are not, hard to judge.

                                        Roberto-- not always the best movers, but great jumpers. Rode a Roberto foxhunter who was as game as they come. Roberto seems to be fairly common among steeplechasers (like McDynamo, by Dynaformer, a son of Roberto).


                                        Others I'm keeping an eye on:
                                        Include-- by Broad Brush, he has some old school up close. I've only seen a couple personally, but they were tall, uphill, long legs and big flowing strides. My type.

                                        Empire Maker-- it sucks he went to Japan, he's had some nice athletic types. Don't know many in sport horse careers (yet), but I like the type of horse he makes: moderate size, proportionate, classic TBs with big hearts.

                                        Tiznow-- he stamps his get well with a super classic TB look. They always seem to catch my eye out in the field, just the way they're put together: long legs, long uphill necks, with a look of eagles. Tend to have upright pasterns; don't know how well they hold up, or if they jump, but I'd be willing to give it a try!

                                        Lion Heart-- he himself was decidedly NOT my type, but I fell in love with quite a few of his offspring who were well-proportioned, leggy, and had great minds. Good-looking horses, too bad Lion Heart went to Turkey.

                                        Cherokee Run (and sons)-- I haven't met enough of them personally to get a good judgment, but they tend to be light, athletic types with chrome. I get the impression they'd jump the moon and move well, but don't know enough of them in sport to say for sure.
                                        “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
                                        ? Albert Einstein

                                        ~AJ~

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X