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TB stallions in germany or europe

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  • TB stallions in germany or europe

    Just wondering if anyone has used any of the TB stallions currently available in germany, such as the ones from the Celle stud or others available via frozen semen

    Obviously not Lauries Crusador who i am assuming does not freeze well

    i am looking to add TB blood to some of my very big and heavy warmblood mares and was just wondering if anyone knows anything about any of them or has used them

    I am in Australia so it has to be frozen semen. i am also on the hunt for suitable TBs here but it is not an easy task

    Some of the ones available in New Zealand would be super but i dont think they serve warmblood mares and anyway the service fees are exorbitant as they are not technically sport horse stallions

    Paulamc

  • #2
    I can't believe you wouldn't have a suitable TB stallion in Australia of all places!?
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
    Breeding & Sales
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    • #3
      Unless you are shooting for pure dressage foals, I'd love at Roven (sj) who is at Nijhof and Markus Deak at Celle. IMO, for dressage you NEED Hyperion and a shot of Mieuxce is also good. Australia is actually one of the few racing jurisdictions that still has an active Hyperion sire line through Star Kingdom. Watermill Swatch and Watermill Rolex, both pure TBs bred by Jan Greve and full brothers, are standing. Swatch is in Ireland and Rolex was at Celle the last time I looked. Swatch has beautiful movement and is lovely himself, but I'm not convinced he's a good sire.

      Another pure TB that Dr. Greve was sponsoring is Painter's Row. There are others scattered about on the continent. Sweden might be a good place to look, since they seem to be very dressage oriented and they have used TBs a good bit more than the Germans.

      You might also look at Lanciano in Canada, who is German bred, Trak approved, and has an owner who is frozen savvy.
      Last edited by vineyridge; Jul. 5, 2012, 10:20 AM.
      "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
      Thread killer Extraordinaire

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      • Original Poster

        #4
        Thanks for all that guys

        I know, you would think here in Oz there would be lots of them but these days not so much, we are dominated by Danehill and Northern DAncer spring lines

        I would love a son of Zabeel, but these are standing at stud for around $100 000 per service

        We do have some great stallions still with the Tudor Melody, Precipitation and Blue Peter fairly close up but again the prices are exorbitant and they do not stand for warmblood mares

        there are still a couple of sons of brilliant Invador around, might have to go there

        i know Celle has Likoto, Markus Deak, Wilawander and some others, just thought someone might have used them

        Yes its for dressage mares but alot of the good jumping lines do the same thing, its just to add blood, sport horse bloodlines to hopefully get a filly out of a couple of mares to return to the broodmare band

        I have some heavy holsteiner type mares with no TB at all and the foals are way too heavy

        Or of course a refining trakehner with lots of TB blood might do the trick

        Not sure how refining the arab blood is, or something like K2 might work as well, but stallions like Hohenstein seem to produce fairly big types as well

        We do have Imperio and Connery semen but the semen agents are so greedy here, its like almost $2000 for one dose which is exorbitant

        Paulamc

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        • #5
          I would look for sons of Heroicity. He was quite prolific in breeding the timber horses, and he made quite a few before he came to the states. Good Luck

          Tim
          Sparling Rock Holsteiners https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/c...milies/yes.gif
          www.sparlingrock.com

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          • #6
            Here a colt by Watermill Rolex xx:

            http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...16464317_n.jpg

            http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...42454792_n.jpg

            http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...95460781_n.jpg

            Unfortunately I do not have the dam's pedigree, but one could ask on Facebook.
            I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
            www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
            2017: March: Filly by Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - SPS Prince Thatch
            May: Finnigan - Sandro Hit - SPS Rouletto

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            • #7
              I used to ride a Hanoverian son of Wilawander xx from Germany who I was absolutely in love with: incredible temperament and a real athlete; one of those rare horses that could do the upper levels in just about any discipline and was still amateur friendly. I know he has a few offspring at FEI level dressage and I've been tempted to breed to Wilawander because of this gelding, but I haven't seen much else of his offspring so I haven't taken the plunge.

              Are you breeding for eventing? I'm intrigued by Amerigo Vespucci xx, given the success at 4* level of his offspring, Air Jordan and Nebelwerfer. Is he available in Australia? Has anyone seen any of his offspring in North America, for that matter?

              Likoto xx also has a number of offspring on the WBFSH Eventing rankings from last year; I believe he had 7 or so that are making their way up through the ranks at FEI. He also clearly produces for dressage if his son, Licotus is any indication. I'm a fan; thinking of breeding him to my Federweisser mare for a potential event prospect.

              Comment


              • #8
                Rumor had it that Koyuna had some frozen Brilliant Invader.

                I believe that Wilawander was one of Dr. Greve's finds.

                If you're open to Arab or AA, take a look at Bonaparte N who is in Germany but does export frozen. Search here as there have been very complimentary things said about him. In fact, he may stand through Celle.
                http://landgestuetcelle.de/cms/front...=16&idart=1878
                Last edited by vineyridge; Jul. 6, 2012, 03:29 PM.
                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                Thread killer Extraordinaire

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                • #9
                  Yes Bonaparte is quite something ! And they distributed him via Celle.
                  His rider is quite young and studies veterinary medizine (i think now finished). During the week his mother rides Bonaparte (recreational and on trails) and neverthelesse he competes with in most difficult tests.

                  This was during a stallion show: http://youtu.be/8iaEhf2XZBE

                  Here he is pretty young (dark legs):http://youtu.be/Ev9lVykD31k


                  I know there is a video of him in hamburg derby course, but can't find it.
                  A freind of mine always said she thinks he is good for such courses as the derby because there is enough until the next jump is coming. But she thinks that he would not be good enough for the modern shorter courses especially in arenas in wintertime. Whatever her opinion is worth.
                  I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
                  www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
                  2017: March: Filly by Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - SPS Prince Thatch
                  May: Finnigan - Sandro Hit - SPS Rouletto

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by alexandra View Post
                    Yes Bonaparte is quite something ! And they distributed him via Celle.
                    His rider is quite young and studies veterinary medizine (i think now finished). During the week his mother rides Bonaparte (recreational and on trails) and neverthelesse he competes with in most difficult tests.
                    Presumably this says something positive about his temperament? I am very interested in using him on fairly hot, sensitive Holsteiner mare but was concerned about what his temperament was like (or more importantly, the temperament he produces).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you can get Bonaparte AA frozen in AUS, DO IT!!!!! The frozen is of outstanding quality, the quality of his foals is probably even better ;-)
                      I posted this elsewhere on this forum, son won't bore you, but this is a yealing filly by Bonaparte AA x Trakehner x TB, so lots of refinement blood:

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maGrnYequL0&feature=plcp
                      www.trakehners-international.com
                      www.fontana-syndikat.de

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                      • #12
                        I own a Hanoverian gelding by Amerigo Vespucci xx and he's located in the US. Super, super moving horse with alot of elasticity and a strong, quick hindleg so I have only concentrated on dressage with him. I took a couple of jumping clinics with him shortly after I bought him in 2003 and the clinician (GP show jumper) called him a "supreme athlete", so I think he could have been a decent jumper too. That said, he is not the bravest soul around, gets all of his confidence from his rider, so I never considered him an eventing prospect although physically he would be suited for it.

                        There was another Amerigo Vespucci xx gelding that was imported to the States around the same time my guy came over. I think River House Hanoverians brought this horse over, and his name was Abelard. Not sure what that horse is doing now days but he's likely still in the country. So there are at least two that I know of. Both geldings are dark bay and 16.3 hands.

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                        • #13
                          Amerigo Vespucci was a 1982 model, so it's entirely unlikely that he is still alive and breeding. Unless there is frozen semen out there, he's probably off the list.
                          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                          Thread killer Extraordinaire

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by alexandra View Post
                            Here a colt by Watermill Rolex xx:

                            http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...16464317_n.jpg

                            http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...42454792_n.jpg

                            http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...95460781_n.jpg

                            Unfortunately I do not have the dam's pedigree, but one could ask on Facebook.


                            Are these pictures from Hof Kleemeyer? I think that is my foal! The dam is Linton/Argentinus

                            Watermill Rolex was available only for live cover last year.
                            www.clearbluefarm.com - a work in progress

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well foalshow was in Südweyhe - that is for sure in Kleemeyer's area.

                              Did you just buy the foal ?

                              Linton - Argentinus hui and further down in the lines ? Or is she not yours ?

                              @tradewind:

                              http://schwoebel-pferdefotografie.de...nid=17&page=17


                              And this is the homepage of the owner and there the video from Hamburg Derby (I knew there was one ;-) )

                              And the homepage says he has xrays class 1

                              http://www.stall-koehlbrandt.de/html...bonaparte.html

                              If you scroll down you see an email adress. Drop them an email, I know they should be able to answer in english and ask about temperament. He is theri family member so to say.
                              I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
                              www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
                              2017: March: Filly by Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - SPS Prince Thatch
                              May: Finnigan - Sandro Hit - SPS Rouletto

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Alexandra, the mare is mine.

                                I bought her as a foal in one of the fall Hanoverian auctions. Her name is Lilly Marleen (Linton/Argentinus/Volkorn). I left her in Germany to be able to breed to a stallion not available in the US.

                                We are trying with Chiron xx from Sprehe this year. First cycle she did not get in foal. Trying once more.

                                I have two Mighty Magic colts on the ground in the US - and I think their trots are a bit fancier than the WR colt. Hard to tell when you can't see them in person.
                                www.clearbluefarm.com - a work in progress

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I just went and looked up Bonaparte N's pedigree on webpedigrees, and it has only one line to the traditional AA and none to Arabs in the first five generations. What it does have is huge amounts of Shagya. 3 of eight, and Hill Anwar has a Shagya damsire. All the rest is TB. So while they may call him an AA, he's really an AS.
                                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                  Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    We can get any of the TB stallions that stand at celle, but not Lauries crusador

                                    And yes can get Bonaparte but do you think that would be refining enough for big heavy warmblood mares with almost no TB in the pedigree?

                                    i just have to lighten them right up then add the fillies to my herd

                                    I am not that keen on the pedigree of Likoto, after looking at the pedigrees of our Oz TB stallions it doesnt do much for me

                                    We can get Wilawander, Markus Deak, Likoto and there is another one too

                                    Do you think the arab blood is refining enough for these big mares with lots of bone?

                                    Paulamc

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      As to aurum having frozen to Brilliant Invador, not sure about that, i would think they would have used it if they did. They do have two sons of his but they dont do much for me, however they certainly are an option

                                      i was hoping for more dressage TB blood but i am more than happy to take the Ladykiller, blue peter line also

                                      Paulamc

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Clear Blue View Post
                                        We are trying with Chiron xx from Sprehe this year. First cycle she did not get in foal. Trying once more.
                                        I know a mare in foal to him. Inseminated this year, so it does work. It is a Werther - Graphit - Gotthard mare from the damline of the Brönnemann family.
                                        That is going to be an interesting foal.
                                        This mare has had a hard life going through an disposal auction organsised by the state, because owen did not look after them very well. She did starve and hence she eats now as much as she can when food is available. And now her owner is in a personal situation that puts her on the market again. Poor think I hope she finds a good home and can stay in Germany.
                                        I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
                                        www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
                                        2017: March: Filly by Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - SPS Prince Thatch
                                        May: Finnigan - Sandro Hit - SPS Rouletto

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