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fresh semen question

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  • fresh semen question

    What are the chances of pregnancy from semen that wasn't centrifuged and was then extended 2:1?


    And then 80mls put into a package, and into a little lidded cup with a dye gel pack, shipped in an equitainer, where half of it naturally leaked into the cup.



    This episode of "Breeding Nightmares" brought to you courtesy of B W Furlong who charged me $200 for the experience.
    www.juniperridgeranch.us
    Visit us on Facebook!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Molly Malone View Post
    What are the chances of pregnancy from semen that wasn't centrifuged and was then extended 2:1?
    two parts semen to two parts extender? Or the other way around? But, honestly, what was the motility? How many sperm was in the package?


    And then 80mls put into a package, and into a little lidded cup with a dye gel pack, shipped in an equitainer, where half of it naturally leaked into the cup.
    So they sent you 80 mls total? Need numbers . It "can" be successful, but need to know exactly what you are dealing with.

    This episode of "Breeding Nightmares" brought to you courtesy of B W Furlong who charged me $200 for the experience.
    Good golly, Ms. Molly...if it wasn't for bad luck, you'd have no luck at all!

    We video and run all semen that comes in through CASA. So, if it looks bad, we make phone calls and try to trouble shoot. Good luck!
    Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
    Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

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    • Original Poster

      #3
      Dunno. The paperwork was all wet (and sticky) and I threw it away, at that point I was so pissed I really didn't care - it looked OK, they used an extender beginning with N, which I didn't recognize. Yes, they sent 80mls total. But I don't think it matters what they wrote as 10 days later (today), the SO called me and told me about the lack of centrifuge and extension (which she had only just found out about after 'a full and frank discussion with BW Furlong'). 14 day check is wednesday and she wanted to prepare me for disappointment.

      The stallion has super looking semen (the SO has changed collection facilities who <gasp> ran tests!!!!! to see which extender worked best and who checked post 24/48/72 hour motility) so it's possible something survived.

      But this is why this is my last breeding year - I'll give it one more cycle but then I'm done. Life is too short to spend this kind of money.
      www.juniperridgeranch.us
      Visit us on Facebook!

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      • #4
        MM, I certainly hope this SO, at the very least, has offered to waive any collection fees for the next cycle, and has generously offered to pay for shipping. Paying for vet fees involved in another cycle would be a fabulous gesture, but that probably won't happen. I had a SO shipping issue a few years ago, and because it was clearly their fault, collection and shipping fees were waived.
        Mystic Owl Sporthorses
        www.mysticowlsporthorses.com

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        • Original Poster

          #5
          To be fair, it absolutely isn't the stallion owners fault. Last year there were no problems, but this year after no fresh pregnancies (but lots of frozen ones) followed by my call to her, she realized that all was not well in Paradise - hence her 'discussion' with BWF (from whom I *will* be getting my collection fees refunded if I die in the attempt). I also appreciate her honesty, because she could have kept silent and I would not have known about the problems with the semen processing not just the shipping. And with my luck, lack of a black dot would have been par for the course anyway so wouldn't have raised my eyebrows.
          www.juniperridgeranch.us
          Visit us on Facebook!

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          • #6
            I'm not saying the SO is a bad person. In my case, it wasn't her fault either, but the fault of her employee, and she made good on collection and shipping as a result of that next cycle. I will add that, if she still had the stallions she did, I would buy breedings to them again. However, it does raise the question, if the SO, or some facet of the collecting shipping part, is directly responsible for a wasted cycle, and admits same, even, it would be a grand gesture to offer something back for the vet expenses incurred by the MO.
            Mystic Owl Sporthorses
            www.mysticowlsporthorses.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Poorly packaged and perhaps not handled well it seems.

              Usually extension for cooled and shipped semen is 3:1. Centrifugation isn't always needed. It all depends on how the semen looks when you get it, and when you inseminate.

              Crossing fingers that she's pregnant! Contact Furlong's office and make sure they know what the situation was. Communication is key, especially when something isn't right.

              Best of luck!
              Hyperion Stud, LLC.
              Europe's Finest, Made in America
              WWW.HYPERIONSTUD.com
              Standing Elite and Approved Stallions

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HyperionStudLLC View Post
                Poorly packaged and perhaps not handled well it seems.

                Usually extension for cooled and shipped semen is 3:1. Centrifugation isn't always needed. It all depends on how the semen looks when you get it, and when you inseminate.
                Mmm...No, this is old school teaching. When shipping semen, you want the semen extended at a MINIMUM of 3:1 and preferably 4:1 (Extender to semen ratio). Ideally, the semen should be extended to a final concentration of 25 to 50 million sperm per ml. If you have a stallion that has low concentration (less than 100 million), centrifugation may be necessary in order to be able to extend it adequately for ideal shipping.

                Paperwork should accompany every shipment of semen so that mare owners and/or their vets can do the math. I don't worry "too" much if the semen arrives with less than ideal motility, IF I have sufficient sperm numbers. And, that paperwork accompanying the shipment also gives me an indication of just how committed to what they are doing whoever is doing the shipping "is".

                Good luck, Ms. Mollly...I'll keep my fingers crossed that there is at least one "dude" that is intent on getting the job done for you...
                Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
                Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

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                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  You can uncross your fingers. No black dot. <sigh>

                  Right - I'm done. No more breeding and my last foal is due early September
                  www.juniperridgeranch.us
                  Visit us on Facebook!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oh how disappointing. Sorry. I have NEVER had luck with ai ever. Maybe my water here ??

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
                      And, that paperwork accompanying the shipment also gives me an indication of just how committed to what they are doing whoever is doing the shipping "is".
                      I became a bit of a numbers junkie, and included:
                      IF semen arrives at 60/40/20%, then minimum needed for dose = ??20/36/53 mls

                      I actually have a chart for me to use to get the numbers to insert into my blank spaces.

                      I was totally obsessed - collecting as late as possible, hand carrying it to the last open FedEx, and then tracked it all night.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
                        Mmm...No, this is old school teaching. When shipping semen, you want the semen extended at a MINIMUM of 3:1 and preferably 4:1 (Extender to semen ratio). Ideally, the semen should be extended to a final concentration of 25 to 50 million sperm per ml. If you have a stallion that has low concentration (less than 100 million), centrifugation may be necessary in order to be able to extend it adequately for ideal shipping.

                        Paperwork should accompany every shipment of semen so that mare owners and/or their vets can do the math. I don't worry "too" much if the semen arrives with less than ideal motility, IF I have sufficient sperm numbers. And, that paperwork accompanying the shipment also gives me an indication of just how committed to what they are doing whoever is doing the shipping "is".

                        Good luck, Ms. Mollly...I'll keep my fingers crossed that there is at least one "dude" that is intent on getting the job done for you...
                        Old school or not, that is what we do and have most experience with other stallion owners. Agreed on numbers and we strive for at least 1 bill per dose. For us, it is soooo incredibly important to send semen shipments with paperwork!!! There's nothing more annoying than getting a shipment, with no paperwork and only a piece of paper that says what stallion it is. It's completely unprofessional and IMO unacceptable. One, I don't want to wait until I am required to do a DNA test to make sure it's the right stallion and two, I need to know the numbers!

                        Yikes.. LoL The things we endure! ha ha
                        Hyperion Stud, LLC.
                        Europe's Finest, Made in America
                        WWW.HYPERIONSTUD.com
                        Standing Elite and Approved Stallions

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HyperionStudLLC View Post
                          Usually extension for cooled and shipped semen is 3:1.
                          Originally posted by HyperionStudLLC View Post
                          Old school or not, that is what we do
                          What Kathy was talking about being "old school" is that 3:1 is what used to be done, and unfortunately many still do, but that does not produce the best semen.

                          Some stallions need to be cut 5:1, or even 8:1 or 10:1. My stallion varried quite a bit in his consentration, so the dilution also needed to be changed from ejaculate to ejaculate.

                          My goal was always to produce the absolute best product I could, on a given day, so I made sure I knew how best to extend his semen, then I counted every ejaculate, to determine how to extend the semen on THAT day. I re-evaluated each time with a hold back sample that I checked at about 14/48/72 hours to make sure that consentration was still working well for him.

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