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Help me pick a stallion...

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  • Help me pick a stallion...

    For my Westphalian mare.

    Pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/honigbar
    Photo: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/10...gbar/012-1.jpg

    She's a bit long-backed, and maybe a touch straight through the hocks, but otherwise has nice, straight legs, good bone and feet, a relatively elegant neck and a very pretty head with a wonderful disposition. She's 16-16.1h and a bit of a flatter mover (or at least, not your freak-of-nature-suspension type), hasn't been jumping long but shows natural talent.

    What I'd like, ideally: maybe a bit more height, similar substance and temperament (no fire-breathing dragons, please!) geared towards mid-ish (P, possibly Intermediate?) level eventing and dressage. Movement is a factor, nothing so lofty as to be really inefficient at the gallop, but that will lend itself to dressage. Hopeful baby would occur in the next few years. There is a TB stallion I've been drooling over the last few years, but I'd like something that will be registerable other than as an American WB.

    Caveat: If at all possible, I'd like to stay away from grey stallions. She's a lovely girl but neither of us is fond of the hours of scrubbing she requires, so the less *chance* of a grey foal, the better!

  • #2
    I'd use Fred's stallion, A Fine Romance. Proven event producer, TB, great temperament, great conformation. Would not make a "heavy" foal either--not that your mare is heavy, but adding warmblood to that might create one.
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


    • Original Poster

      Originally posted by Calvincrowe View Post
      I'd use Fred's stallion, A Fine Romance. Proven event producer, TB, great temperament, great conformation. Would not make a "heavy" foal either--not that your mare is heavy, but adding warmblood to that might create one.
      Maybe I'm too used to looking at The Giant One. (It's a sibling of his that I've been coveting!)

      I'm really a newb when it comes to this registry stuff. So if I understand correctly, I'd need to get the mare ISR/OldNA approved to have a registerable foal (through ISR/OldNA) if I used Fred's boy?


      • #4
        When choosing a stallion I try to repeat names in a pedigree that I feel consistently contribute positive charactaristics. You don't seems to have much if any line breeding in her boodlines, so I don't see the value in a total outcross when she is not bringing a consolidated pedigree to the table.
        Does she have a performance record or are you looking to the stallion to provide that for you?
        Best of luck in your endeavors, what ever stallion you choose.
        "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist


        • #5
          Pablito? He's kind of a jack of all trades and my 6yo by him is fabulous. Jumper stressful and her brother is an upper level eventer.


          • #6
            I really like your mare. I bought a horse at the Westphalian auction once. And the most expensive horse there was a grey gelding by Hirschfänger...

            You might also look at his sire Pablo, who is also in the US. I´m sorry I don´t know Pablito well, but I´ve seen some offspring from Pablo and I would recommend him very much...
            My neighbour had a gelding by Pablo who was a very sucessful and durable jumpinghorse....
            Usually they move well too...


            • Original Poster

              Originally posted by not again View Post
              When choosing a stallion I try to repeat names in a pedigree that I feel consistently contribute positive charactaristics. You don't seems to have much if any line breeding in her boodlines, so I don't see the value in a total outcross when she is not bringing a consolidated pedigree to the table.
              Does she have a performance record or are you looking to the stallion to provide that for you?Best of luck in your endeavors, what ever stallion you choose.

              Just wanted to touch on this. She doesn't have a lot in the way of a show record, but she is doing very well in her training at home (and the few shows she's been to). I am taking a bit of a hiatus from showing for the next year or two so it is unlikely that she will have much more at the time of breeding than she does now, although I expect her training to continue it's progress.


              • #8
                Well, I would focus on her TK lines. TK's can be, and IME, are prepotent (benefit of a closed book). They also have success eventing. So, are there any particular TK lines in your mares pedigree, capable of siring an eventer, available for you to breed to in the US? Then, does this horse suit your mare?

                Not too familiar with TKs, so I apologize for the lack of suggestions, but I hope my response gives you a direction to head in


                • #9
                  Bugatti Hilltop or his son Bravo? Bugatti will shorten the back, has a great temperament, schooled up the levels himself, and has at least one offspring out there eventing successfully - Bravo, who is also an approved stallion.
                  *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*


                  • Original Poster

                    Thanks for all the names, guys. I'll have to check them out when I have a few minutes.

                    If someone could find me an approved stallion with Pleasant Colony blood, I'd forever idolize you. All the ones I know of are JC-only. I know it's unlikely.


                    • #11

                      When picking a stallion I'm a firm believer in researching and using pedigree first, followed by traits and show record.

                      I would do A LOT of googling of all the stallions in her pedigree. Look at them and look at horses by them.

                      1: Find the ones you think contribute most to the qualities in your mare you love. Like her jumping ability, or her neck, etc... You should come across boys she looks nothing like, and maybe a couple she is the spitting image of.
                      2: Next I would take the stallions whose influence you like and research their offspring, specifically their eventing offspring if possible. Find out what they cross well with, and what produces the horse you want.

                      For example. Let's say you find that you really like the influence of Paradox I.... he looks like her, jumps like her, many of his offspring have the same qualities you like in your mare. (I'm just using this as an example, I've not done a thorough search on Paradox I)
                      * Hilltop Farm's Parabol, by Paradox I is a lovely stallion. Great temperament, super sweet, beautiful mover and jumper, etc. He is probably not an option for breeding due to timeline, and he's only via frozen now which you may not want to do for a first pregnancy with your mare. But...
                      * Through looking at some of Parabol's offspring (Paradox niche) here http://hilltopfarminc.com/stallion_p...ighlights.html You find that he crosses extremely well with thoroughbred mares.
                      * This would suggest crossing your mare to a TB may be a very good choice. At which point, I would find a stallion possessing the traits you love, with a record of soundness and competition.
                      * If you do research Paradox I and find out is he a stallion with great influence in your mare, here is an eventing mare I just happened across that is lovely with Paradox I in her pedigree (it is a little ways back though). Her sire may be worth looking into.

                      I've known and handled a few Pablito offspring, including owning one for 7 years myself and wouldn't recommend. All of them were a bit "silly," spooky, hard to concentrate. 3 of them were out of TB mares, 2 out of WB mares. All 5 of them were 16 or 16.1, so no height with Pablito in my experience. Of course, 5 horses isn't the biggest pool to judge from.


                      • #12
                        Just wanted to add a Videolink of Pablo...



                        • #13
                          So I went to the ATA website & did a quick glance (procrastination at it's finest!), and there are some that I would investigate based on pedigree & availability alone. I would love to hear what the TK people think of reinforcing some of these lines.


                          http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10469327 **distant, but - a prepotent guy?


                          http://americantrakehner.com/Stallions/Hannibal.asp **interesting...

                          Very distant, possibly irrelevant bloodlines due to distance but cool stallions:
                          Tzigane, Stravinsky, Schiffon


                          • #14
                            Here are some Trakehner stallions that are approved Westphalian or would be accepted by them,






                            And there is probably a few more.


                            • #15
                              Well, if you want to go for a Trakehner, then maybe Buddenbrock??


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by RedMare01 View Post
                                Bugatti Hilltop or his son Bravo? Bugatti will shorten the back, has a great temperament, schooled up the levels himself, and has at least one offspring out there eventing successfully - Bravo, who is also an approved stallion.
                                Thanks Redmare01 for mentioning Bravo. And of course I love his sire Bugatti!

                                Bravo just competed in a dressage festival in Canada and won all his shows. I'm still waiting for all the details on this show so sorry I don't have any video or photos yet. Bravo will be competing in eventing this weekend under Kerry Johnston and I'll update my web-site after that show.

                                Bravo has numerous site champions, premiums and show winning offspring on the ground. His first babies are just now starting in the show ring evenly divided between dressage and eventing but 2 are doing the hunters.

                                Here is a video from his last show at Prelim early this year.

                                Cross Country- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjR_S...&feature=share

                                Dressage - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa93ckrdGmI

                                Stadium- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmbCl2-UUuM


                                I have a lot more videos of him on my web-site.

                                Happy stallion shopping!
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by misita; May. 3, 2012, 01:17 AM.
                                Chris Misita
                                www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net Home of Bravo and Warrick!
                                To dare; progress comes at this price. All sublime conquests are, more or less, the rewards of daring.
                                Victor Hugo


                                • Original Poster

                                  I would love to hear some thoughts/reviews of Lord Ferragamo and his babies - I did a search but didn't come up with much other than a few mentions in threads about Lord Loxley.

                                  I'm also in LOVE with Hemmingway, although I'm not keen on the whole ISR/OldNA thing and this will be his first season. Definitely like Hofrat, and Distelzar as well.

                                  I do really like Buddenbrock as well. Is there any video available of him?