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Lutalyse question for Kathy St. Martin

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  • Lutalyse question for Kathy St. Martin

    Hi! New here... I posted a question on a different forum and was told I should come here. So here I am!

    I took my mare to the vet yesterday for some minor dental work and to have her reproductive exam completed. Vet said she's healthy and looks perfect for breeding. She is a maiden mare. During her ultrasound our vet said one of her follicles was at about 25. I told our vet that I wasn't in any hurry to get her bred immediately due to our late winters here (we've lost power due to snow storms on several Easters) and that I was willing to patiently wait for her to cycle normally. But my vet suggested Lutalyse and gave my mare a micro dose and sent me home with another one to give her today. But since my mare is a maiden and this is our first try of the year to breed her, I'm concerned about messing her cycles up and making it difficult if she doesn't concieve this time. My vet is wanting me to bring her back on Saturday in hopes that she'll be coming in and be ready to breed that Monday or Tuesday. However, I'm afraid of the risk of missing her ovulation. I am really trying to trust my vet... I was told she was the best in the area for reproduction... I am just nervous and trying not to stress out! Hoping for some encouragement I had asked her, with my mare being a healthy maiden and the stallion having AMAZING sperm (a 20 year old maiden took on her first insemination this year), what she thought the chances were of her taking on the first try. She said 50%. Needless to say, I was discouraged with that percentage. Any comforting thoughts?? Suggestions?? And I had thought normal procedure was to inseminate the mare twice in one round-- is once enough? How often should a mare be checked for ovulation? I was under the impression that my mare would be checked around the clock, but yesterday my vet seemed much more relaxed said she'd check her once a day, "more often if needed." Seems like I need to be VERY specific in my questions for her from now on... but I would be best asking them when I know what all the answers should be.

    Please tell me I'm just over stressing and need to relax... that everything will be just fine....

    And thank you in advance!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Alliegirl View Post
    But since my mare is a maiden and this is our first try of the year to breed her, I'm concerned about messing her cycles up and making it difficult if she doesn't concieve this time. My vet is wanting me to bring her back on Saturday in hopes that she'll be coming in and be ready to breed that Monday or Tuesday. However, I'm afraid of the risk of missing her ovulation.
    Without being there, seeing the ultrasound, feeling the palpation, I'm only armchair quarterbacking and consequently, it's only a guess. Giving prostaglandin won't "mess up" her cycles. It's a naturally occurring hormone that the mare releases herself. It just pushes things along a bit. Mares grow follicles at the rate of 3 to 5 mm a day. A 35 mm follicle is considered a "breedeable" follicle as you can use an ovulation promoter such as hCG or Deslorelin or Histrelin on it and have a somewhat predictable timeline to ovulation.

    I am really trying to trust my vet... I was told she was the best in the area for reproduction... I am just nervous and trying not to stress out! Hoping for some encouragement I had asked her, with my mare being a healthy maiden and the stallion having AMAZING sperm (a 20 year old maiden took on her first insemination this year), what she thought the chances were of her taking on the first try. She said 50%.
    <smile>...50% is probably a bit low - we see about a 65% to 75% first cycle conception rate.

    Needless to say, I was discouraged with that percentage. Any comforting thoughts?? Suggestions?? And I had thought normal procedure was to inseminate the mare twice in one round-- is once enough?
    If you have good semen, once is enough. Putting semen in twice just means more that the mare has to clear out. 500 million progressively motile sperm is the threshold. Putting more than that in a mare does not increase your odds of a successful pregnancy. But, putting more semen in can compromise it especially if dealing with a mare that has uterine clearance issues. Your vet is spot on.

    How often should a mare be checked for ovulation? I was under the impression that my mare would be checked around the clock, but yesterday my vet seemed much more relaxed said she'd check her once a day, "more often if needed." Seems like I need to be VERY specific in my questions for her from now on... but I would be best asking them when I know what all the answers should be.
    It depends. Checking once a day is definitely sufficient when dealing with fresh cooled semen. No reason to check more often. Indeed, if the semen is good quality, checking every 48 hours is actually sufficient. We check more often in case there are issues with clearing fluid, but that is also very much mare dependent.

    Please tell me I'm just over stressing and need to relax... that everything will be just fine....

    And thank you in advance!
    Stressing is futile <LOL>. Bad habit, although I am REALLY good at it! No guarantees in horse breeding and as Jos likes to remind me, mare "is" a four letter word. But, with a young, healthy mare and good quality semen, those are the mares I LOVE to have in. They make me look good! Wish everyone would bring those to me <lol>. Instead, we get a LOT of problem mares to deal with!

    Good luck! Sounds like your vet has a pretty good grip on things.
    Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
    Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Thank you! Thank you!! I will be stressing heavily for a long time to come (lol!), but I feel I can breathe a little steadier and trust my vet more... I am driving 2 hours (one way) to use her per her recommendations, so it's good to know my driving (and my mare's trailering) is for the good. I just realize that so much (a foal!) is at stake here....

      Comment


      • #4
        Kathy,just have to say, I LOVE the way you answer posts/emails, etc......

        the way you quote and answer is so nice for those of us who aren;t so well versed in the art of breeding and AI

        thanks!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by gabby.gator View Post
          Kathy,just have to say, I LOVE the way you answer posts/emails, etc......

          the way you quote and answer is so nice for those of us who aren;t so well versed in the art of breeding and AI

          thanks!
          <ROTFL>...some people HATE it because they feel like I'm pickin' on 'em. I'm truly not! I figure it's the easiest way to answer a specific question without it being confused. And, quite honestly, even though I realize that sometimes the poster understands and already knows what I'm saying, I recognize not everyone reading may understand it. But thank you <smile>. Glad it helps follow what I'm saying !
          Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
          Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            As for an update... brought my mare in on Saturday and the vet said she had a follicle of 20 and 32 and was saying everything was looking perfect for a Tuesday breeding... she checked her again Sunday evening and she was then at 30 and 37 (wow! isn't that really rapid growth?!). She checked her the next morning and it was the same... called the stallion owner and ordered a shipment of semen. Checked my mare that evening and she had ovulated. I picked my girl up this afternoon-- and minutes after my arrival the semen arrived. How frustrating! To have it sitting right there, and to be of no use. I am SO bummed. Breeding does require luck, that's for sure.

            Off topic, but what is the typical cost for collection and shipping? When I had looked it up online to get an idea of what I would be paying, everyone was quoting the entire cost at HALF of what I've been charged... And the package was only shipped from 8 hours away. A bit confused...

            Comment


            • #7
              did you breed her anyway? I shipped semen for a mare last year, and when it got there, the mare owner let me know that she ovulated before the semen arrived. She decided to gamble and bred her anyway, post ovulation.

              Here is the result
              Attached Files
              Cornerstone Equestrian
              Home of Amazing (Balou du Rouet/Voltaire) 2005 KWPN Stallion
              RPSI, KWPN reg B, and IHF nominated
              www.cornerstonefarmpa.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Alliegirl View Post

                Off topic, but what is the typical cost for collection and shipping? When I had looked it up online to get an idea of what I would be paying, everyone was quoting the entire cost at HALF of what I've been charged... And the package was only shipped from 8 hours away. A bit confused...
                There will be quite a variation on costs - especially on the collection - so it's always a good idea to pay close attention to what those fees are going to be when you sign a contract. We charge $150 per collection and cost of shipping is through Fedex and is billed through at what it costs us. Typically it runs around $250 to $300 for everything depending on where the shipment goes. That "does" include the return shipment for the Equitainer, as well .
                Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
                Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  No. My mare ovulated sometime between 8 am and 5 pm the day before. She said that if my mare had ovulated sometime after she had checked her that evening and but still sometime before the semen arrived, she would have bred her. But in our case, it would have been after the 12 hour "window" and she said it wouldn't have done us any good.

                  That is a BEAUTIFUL foal! Any idea of how many hours prior to recieving the semen that the mare had ovulated?

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
                    There will be quite a variation on costs - especially on the collection - so it's always a good idea to pay close attention to what those fees are going to be when you sign a contract. We charge $150 per collection and cost of shipping is through Fedex and is billed through at what it costs us. Typically it runs around $250 to $300 for everything depending on where the shipment goes. That "does" include the return shipment for the Equitainer, as well .
                    Thanks for the response. Those are the figures I had found when getting an idea on cost... the contract didn't have dollar amounts. Just stated that I would be billed for the collection and shipping. They charged me $220 for the collection alone. And then $120 for the shipping (Fedex) and container. And that does not include return shipment. And like I said, it's not being shipped far-- only crosses one state line. There aren't actually SO out there who try to make profit over cost... is there...? I did think it strange the costs weren't printed in the contract, but since I'm completely new at this, thought perhaps that was normal. Especially since there were so many answers to those costs in online forums that I found. This SO also charges a $100 "transportation fee" for every collection after the first one. So we're looking at almost $450 for each shipment! So much for getting a "discounted stud fee"...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Alliegirl View Post
                      They charged me $220 for the collection alone.
                      That's not unreasonable.

                      And then $120 for the shipping (Fedex) and container.
                      And that does not include return shipment. And like I said, it's not being shipped far-- only crosses one state line. There aren't actually SO out there who try to make profit over cost... is there...? I did think it strange the costs weren't printed in the contract, but since I'm completely new at this, thought perhaps that was normal. Especially since there were so many answers to those costs in online forums that I found. This SO also charges a $100 "transportation fee" for every collection after the first one. So we're looking at almost $450 for each shipment! So much for getting a "discounted stud fee"...
                      Often, stallion owners don't do their own collections and use a clinic to do it. So, they are obligated to charge whatever the clinic charges. I'm guessing the "transportation fee" is to cover the inconvenience of hauling the stallion to the clinic for collection.

                      I will say that I am suffering a little sticker shock myself this year at Fedex charges. Significant increase over last year's prices .
                      Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
                      Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

                      Comment

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