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AI, Timing and Ovulation Question

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  • AI, Timing and Ovulation Question

    Hey All,

    Once again am seeking collective wisdom from my fellow equestrians

    Question: Have you ever inseminated a mare two or even three days before ovulation?? What were your results??

    Here's my situation. MO calls to have stallion collected on a Friday becuase Vet predicted ovulation either Friday pm or Sat am.. . well, nature has a way of deciding for herself when the perfect timing is . . . mare did not actually ovulate until Monday am. Mare was inseminated both Friday and Saturday. MO will notify me of US results tomorrow but I've got ants in my pants. . . any chance for a conception??? Our stallion's stats are: Vol-70ML with a Concentration of 196M with a total of 13.7bill Motility is 90%at Collection and 85% after 48hrs with extender and after 48hours = 50%. I know spermies live for about 3 days. . . anychance???? Also, if there was a late conception. . . what are the possibilies of a colt vs. filly??? *total* wivestale, but I've heard that the "older" spermies are usually the ones in charge of the x chromosone. . .
    Willow Run Connemaras
    Home of: "Willow Boy" (*Chiltern Colm ex *Sillbridge Miranda by Thunderbolt)
    ~Irish Connemara Ponies for Sport and Pleasure~
    www.willowrunconnemaras.com

  • #2
    The second dose so close to the first might actually be more problematic than the length to ovulation. The swimmers do better in the mare than in the can, but ideally you don't want to breed 2x in a row because of irritation/edema.

    Supposedly (and this is from my research for this year's retiring Grande Dam) breeding PREovulation is best chance for a filly, close to or post is colt. The girls are slower and last longer. The boys are faster but die sooner. (go figure )
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by pintopiaffe View Post
      The second dose so close to the first might actually be more problematic than the length to ovulation. The swimmers do better in the mare than in the can, but ideally you don't want to breed 2x in a row because of irritation/edema.

      Supposedly (and this is from my research for this year's retiring Grande Dam) breeding PREovulation is best chance for a filly, close to or post is colt. The girls are slower and last longer. The boys are faster but die sooner. (go figure )

      lol!!! why am I not surprised about the girlie swimmers??? We DO last longer Okay, well--here's to a positive US as well a filly foal. . . will find out tomorrow. . . . ay!
      Willow Run Connemaras
      Home of: "Willow Boy" (*Chiltern Colm ex *Sillbridge Miranda by Thunderbolt)
      ~Irish Connemara Ponies for Sport and Pleasure~
      www.willowrunconnemaras.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by erinwillow View Post
        Hey All,

        Once again am seeking collective wisdom from my fellow equestrians

        Question: Have you ever inseminated a mare two or even three days before ovulation?? What were your results??
        If dealing with a mare that has uterine clearance issues, we actually recommend breeding at least two and sometimes three days prior to ovulation in order to optimize the opportunity to deal with the fluid issues. With that said, if the stallion has good longevity and sufficient sperm numbers, it shouldn't be a problem.

        Good luck!

        Kathy St.Martin
        Equine Reproduction Short Courses
        http://www.equine-reproduction.com
        Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
        Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

        Comment


        • #5
          We bred several of our mares 2-3 days early this year due to weekends and holidays, and each one got in foal as a result. It's much better to do this than to wait till the last second... like E-R said, the semen should live for several days. Waiting till at or after ovulation has had significantly less success for us.

          Our breeding/timing methods may be why we seem to always have fillies! This year we had colts as a result of our frozen semen breedings (at ovulation), but otherwise we never have colts, so there has to be some truth to the "female" sperm living longer, etc. If the mare does conceive I would certainly bet filly!
          Signature Sporthorses
          www.signaturesporthorses.com

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Hi guys,

            Thanks for all the responses

            well, bad news. . negative on the US

            So, MO wants a re-breed this weekend. . . thoughts that come to mind. . .it's HOT, it's HUMID. . it's late in the season. . . any suggestions on how to make this next go- 'round successful???
            Willow Run Connemaras
            Home of: "Willow Boy" (*Chiltern Colm ex *Sillbridge Miranda by Thunderbolt)
            ~Irish Connemara Ponies for Sport and Pleasure~
            www.willowrunconnemaras.com

            Comment


            • #7
              How good at repro is the vet that is ultrasounding? Is she 15 days post ovulation?

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Hi Fairveiw. .

                18 days post ovulation. ..don't know why it didnt' work this time. . . only that the mare was being re-bred from having lost a foal the month before. I don't mind offering another collection but I do worry a bit at the time of year, season, heat, humidity, etc. . . .
                Willow Run Connemaras
                Home of: "Willow Boy" (*Chiltern Colm ex *Sillbridge Miranda by Thunderbolt)
                ~Irish Connemara Ponies for Sport and Pleasure~
                www.willowrunconnemaras.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  I counted from the Monday AM ovulation to today, and this morning would have been 15 days, if we are talking about ovulation the morning of July 15th. At 15 days, I have seen quite a few pregnancies missed by less experienced vets - that is why I asked.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Hi Fairview,

                    you're right -- for some reason I had insemination in my brain and so counted from the Friday previous-- HOWEVER I've just been told they are doing another US on Friday, August 1st. I think the idea is to see where she is in her cycel and ready her for another re-bred. .. BUT you've mentioned an interesting point, which may be that the embryo was missed on the first go 'round. . . . I would LOVE to find one on Friday wish us luck!
                    Willow Run Connemaras
                    Home of: "Willow Boy" (*Chiltern Colm ex *Sillbridge Miranda by Thunderbolt)
                    ~Irish Connemara Ponies for Sport and Pleasure~
                    www.willowrunconnemaras.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      While 15-day pregnancies *can* be missed (just like there are stories of vets missing 2-month, 4-month, 6-month, etc etc pregnancies), it's unlikely with a good repro vet - so don't get your hopes up. Mine was checked at 14 days and even *I* saw the little black circle - it was unmistakable.

                      I agree with the poster who said breeding two days in a row may have actually reduced your chances, not the 3-day window. That's a lot of fluid to be sticking in a mare - did you have the vet check her late Saturday and again Sunday for fluid clearance issues?!

                      Last year mine was bred on Thursday at noon and ovulated sometime early Saturday morning - she caught first try and had a colt. Between her Thursday insemination (noon) and her Saturday check (noon), she needed oxytocin twice - she had a bit of fluid when she was checked on Thursday evening, none on Friday, and a bit on Saturday. I'm a big advocate for doing more checks rather than making assumptions!

                      Good luck! And I don't think early August is too late to re-breed. I bred on August 2nd once and got a healthy filly on June 28th the following year.
                      www.jlsporthorsesales.net

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ASBJumper View Post
                        While 15-day pregnancies *can* be missed (just like there are stories of vets missing 2-month, 4-month, 6-month, etc etc pregnancies), it's unlikely with a good repro vet - so don't get your hopes up. Mine was checked at 14 days and even *I* saw the little black circle - it was unmistakable.

                        I agree with the poster who said breeding two days in a row may have actually reduced your chances, not the 3-day window. That's a lot of fluid to be sticking in a mare - did you have the vet check her late Saturday and again Sunday for fluid clearance issues?!

                        Last year mine was bred on Thursday at noon and ovulated sometime early Saturday morning - she caught first try and had a colt. Between her Thursday insemination (noon) and her Saturday check (noon), she needed oxytocin twice - she had a bit of fluid when she was checked on Thursday evening, none on Friday, and a bit on Saturday. I'm a big advocate for doing more checks rather than making assumptions!

                        Good luck! And I don't think early August is too late to re-breed. I bred on August 2nd once and got a healthy filly on June 28th the following year.
                        Thanks ASBJumper,

                        I think you have a point about the double dosing so close together. . . but the MO's Vet suggested that this was his preferred route. . . it can be a bit difficult as the SO sometimes. . they say ship and we ship I just hope we can get a pregnancy on this second try. I'll also ask my Vet to ask hers about the double dosing approach. . .
                        Willow Run Connemaras
                        Home of: "Willow Boy" (*Chiltern Colm ex *Sillbridge Miranda by Thunderbolt)
                        ~Irish Connemara Ponies for Sport and Pleasure~
                        www.willowrunconnemaras.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          erin - DUH... I totally wrote my post thinking you were the MO... lol..

                          This must a heck of a nice mare for you to be so antsy!!
                          I hope she catches!
                          www.jlsporthorsesales.net

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If the mare does not have clearance issues, dosing at least 24 hours apart is usually fine, and extremely common, although probably not needed if the numbers and progressive motility was good. If you put the 2nd dose in sooner than 24 hours, as Kathy (Equine Reprodustion) says, you might as well dump it on the ground.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This is a change in timing. My mare ovulated earlier than she usually does. How long after ovulation have any of you bred a mare and had a pregnancy? Peg
                              Fleur de Lis Hanoverians

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Hello All,

                                Just a quickie update. . . we're headed off to the Vet's tomorrow for another collection. . this time they "short cycled" her and are confident in a good follicle. . .hey, I feel good about the timing this time soooooooooo everybody wish us luck!
                                Willow Run Connemaras
                                Home of: "Willow Boy" (*Chiltern Colm ex *Sillbridge Miranda by Thunderbolt)
                                ~Irish Connemara Ponies for Sport and Pleasure~
                                www.willowrunconnemaras.com

                                Comment

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