• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

What do these TB Sires mean to you for H/J?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What do these TB Sires mean to you for H/J?

    Mr. Prospector

    What do these mean to you (what are they known to pass down) for Hunter/Jumper breeding or prospects? I'm asking because I know these names mean something - I'm just not sure what...

    I was window shopping at a CANTER site, and found a mare with Mr. Prospector, Buckpasser, and Dynaformer, all rather close in on her pedigree, and thought, "well that's a helluva lot of something".

    Last edited by Pokey; Jul. 24, 2008, 04:18 PM. Reason: added links

  • #2
    Mr. P: not one I like to see close up. It gets better if you get down to grandkids. Not ALL his offpspring have front leg soundness and confo issues....but way too many of them do. It really depends on WHICH of his offspring lines you are dealing with.....like some are awful but I like Fappiano. Fort Chafee: I don't know much about.
    Unbridled: another source of "not sound enough" for me
    Buckpasser: one of my favorites for conformational correctness
    Dynaformer: great jump, not necessarily "easy" on temperment.
    Providence Farm


    • #3
      What camohn said. I love Buckpasser & Dynaformer, but will pass on anything with Mr. P, due to soundness and disposition issues I've encountered, repeatedly. Some think Mr. P. through Fappiano is better, but I just won't touch any of them. YMMV.


      • Original Poster

        She's got Mr. P topside grand sire, and Dynaformer bottom side grand sire. Buckpasser is further back on the topside. (pedigree link is in original post)

        So- a cranky well jumping chesnut mare that's unsound...ok, good to know! The names were familiar to me, but I had no idea why...


        • #5
          I love her shoulder and neck-set - very elegant for an off track TB. I'd suggest going see her if you were interested! See if she has any obvious temperment issues.

          She has a lovely topline. She *might* be a touch over at the knee? That doesn't always mean anything for soundness, its just a little ugly.
          * Sunny * Ella (2006 filly) * Tank (2008 colt)*


          • Original Poster

            Sunny's mom...shame on you for even suggesting it!

            I have no business looking at horses right now...just window shopping (have been for the last 4 years...oy) and started looking at bloodlines for some reason and realized that I knew some TB sires were know for tossing lousy runners but fabulous H/J. Must have something to do with all these damn horse dreams I've been having...or my perplexing feeling that I need a horse. Damn you Sunny's Mom...Damn you

            I did do a forum search on Dynaformer, and found a reference to Alydar tossing good jumpers too...and there was another CANTER horse that had him, bottom side grand sire I think...will go look at the website and see.


            • #7
              Yes, Alydar does produce a lot of jumpers.....and Roberto for hunters.
              One to look for on the mare you have here's pedigree that you did not mention is TV Lark/TV Commercial............
              Providence Farm


              • #8
                I think that's a very nice looking mare-- with nothing to complain about in the pedigree either. I took care of a lot of Mr. P's when I worked on the track in Florida, and found them great horses-- good looking, well conformed, and a lot of them were super sweet to boot. Many have done well as show horses, both in hunters and dressage, with a grandson of Mr. P recently (last year?) winning Best Young Horse at Upperville. While a lot of Mr. P's (and Unbridled's) break down on the track, please keep in mind that show horses are never asked to run fast enough to hurt themselves-- they certainlydon't need the level of soundness required of sprint (and classic) champions-- which an unusually high number of these horses become. These horses do not get hurt because they're poorly put together: Unbridled, for example, is well known for his excellent conformation, as is Barbaro's dam, another Mr. P. line horse. They tend to get hurt because they run so hard, and on the rare occasion I've seen an irritable Mr. P, it's always been because he was hurting.

                Kind of curious as to why you didn't mention all the Northern Dancer in this pedigree. That's also a nice source of a lot of good qualities: good movement, good conformation, and athleticism out the whazoo.

                Ironically, the horse I like least for show horses in this pedigree is the Roberto: Dynaformer. He's sired a lot of good races horses, but he himself is pretty homely (+ ill-tempered), with his offspring known for toughness a whole lot more than looks.

                To me, this mare looks very much like a Mr. P-- a very good thing. I agree with Sunny's mom-- this mare deserves a closer acquaintance. She's extremely well put together (even "uphill", which can be hard to find in a TB), and that pedigree has a lot of excellent depth.

                (Re: the Alydars-- yes, they've produced GP jumpers, with Alydar being a son of Raise a Native just like Mr P, Majestic Prince, and a bunch of other horses who combined beauty with athleticism and, in my experience, excellent temperament.)


                • Original Poster

                  I suppose I didn't mention Northern Dancer because while I'm familiar with him as a racehorse, I know nothing of what he passes down. Possibly also figured it was a common enough line in the way that Native Dancer is, that it didn't matter much? I had a Native Dancer mare, and while pretty...that was about all she was - jump was ok, movement was ok, temperament was ok, and as a special bonus, was strung tight as a high wire in winter.

                  Turns out the Alydar mare is a 12 year old broodmare, and while I really am just window shopping, I'm window shopping for a riding horse.

                  You all are getting me more interested in that mare than I have any right to be!


                  • #10
                    She is also out of a 1-w mareline which is good and has produced some decent winning horses, including a mare called Bundler that won $224,000 racing. Not bad. I would go look at her.
                    Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
                    " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
                    Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.


                    • #11
                      Nice mare -- I have truck and trailer!! Maybe if I kick a horse out I'd have some room

                      15! green star mares in the back pedigree, uphill build. Yes, nice. We like mares, even red heads. I just had a long string of chestnuts and had to switch to another color for awhile -- now it's bay mare acres.
                      The cue card kid just held up an empty cue card. For a minute there I thought I had lost my sense of humor. --- Red Skelton


                      • Original Poster

                        If I had the means, I really would strongly consider picking this mare up. She's 6, survived sound at the track, promising bloodline and conformation...not a bad size. If I went out and she had a reasonable character and movement, I'd take her.

                        If my circumstances change, and she's still available, I promise I'll go look at her.

                        Pony Grandma - green star mares? Can you give me the 101 version?


                        • #13

                          Reines De Course
                          Ellen Parker is a pedigree researcher who has spent lots of time studying famous mares. She's comes out with a list of the 500 or so most influential mares of the last century. These Reine De Course (Queens of The Turf) mares are highlighted in the pedigree with a green star.



                          Look around at horse pedigrees at www.pedigreequery.com to compare the number of green star mares. For example Seattle Slew had 16 green star mares in a 5 generation pedigree and he sold as an inexpensive yearling BEFORE this scoring for mares was developed. Why he became what he was.

                          7-8 green star mares are more common in pedigrees of many nice horses, 11-12 start getting excited, 12+ RUN.

                          I have mares with 9, 11 and 12 green stars in the 5G.
                          The cue card kid just held up an empty cue card. For a minute there I thought I had lost my sense of humor. --- Red Skelton


                          • Original Poster

                            pony grandma, thank you for the 101 - that is actually quite interesting, I had no idea. 15 eh? You're SO not helping!


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pokey View Post
                              pony grandma, thank you for the 101 - that is actually quite interesting, I had no idea. 15 eh? You're SO not helping!
                              Go look at her. Consider that when horse shopping at least half the time 15.3h turns out to be 15.1 (or less), and especially where manners are concerned, horses live to make liars out of their owners. Then you can walk away and put her out of your mind.

                              At least you know darned well that's what would happen if you really did need another mare


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Pokey View Post
                                She's got Mr. P topside grand sire, and Dynaformer bottom side grand sire. Buckpasser is further back on the topside. (pedigree link is in original post)

                                So- a cranky well jumping chesnut mare that's unsound...ok, good to know! The names were familiar to me, but I had no idea why...

                                Uhhhh, no. Mr. P is a leading hunter sire for a reason, and I think if you ask this on the h/j forum or the eventing forum you may get more balanced opinions. For some reason the SHB forum poopoos Mr. P. I loff my Mr. P, personally, and she would kick ASS at hunters if I ever decided to dust off my britches. Vineyridge also posted a link on here about longevity of race horses and # of starts and Mr. P was pretty high up the totem pole (in a very good way). Judge the horse, not the stereotype.
                                Celtic Pride Farm
                                Become a fan on Facebook!


                                • #17
                                  If I am reading it correctly, my mare has 14 in 5g
                                  Highland Fab
                                  has had 2 very nice daughters and is performance star mare in main mare book of OldNA/ISR

                                  Her tb daughter, Ceilidh Dancer, has 16.

                                  Both really like to compete and can jump!

                                  I do look for those strong mare lines.


                                  • #18
                                    To the OP
                                    I really like your redhead! TV Commercial and Nijinsky plus Buckpasser and Roberto and Ribot/His Majesty. Should be tough and athletic and beautiiful. May need good handling as temperament could be interesting/not for the lower levels.

                                    Won't be looking at her for us as we are selling as my daughter starts vet school in September. I will be sad to see our homebred with the 16 green stars in her 5g go. She is such a competitor-- loves it!


                                    • Original Poster

                                      Well, if I'm going to look at one... I should look at two. (damn you all)



                                      11 green stars, with Unbridled/Mr. P, Alydar on top, Northern Dancer and Hoist the Flag on the bottom

                                      okggo - I was being sarcastic, not literal. I'm sure she's just like any other horse - needs to be assessed and understood in person. I like what you said about longevity - I feel strongly that is something that needs to be bred for, and adds yet another point to Rita Rose.

                                      I mentioned to my husband that I may have found a horse, and that if I could *just* get the job that I've got my eye on, I'd probably at least go see her, if not buy her. But, as it stands, it's a egg in basket at this point. Maybe you all could cross your fingers and send some good vibes my way so that I can pull one of these nice horses off the track.


                                      • #20
                                        Pokey - I like your pick!!! Yes indeedy!!
                                        "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."