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Coat color--Brown in JC TBs

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  • Coat color--Brown in JC TBs

    Genetically what is brown?

    I've just looked in Wikipedia, and now I'm wondering if many JC browns are just dark liver chestnut.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire

  • #2
    Does JC list horses as just brown? My guy's papers say dark bay/brown, and I don't remember seeing a horse listed as brown only.
    Originally posted by Silverbridge
    If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

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    • #3
      I had a dark bay/brown mare. Genetically EEAta.
      Pacific Coast Eventing
      Standing Yeager GF

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      • #4
        Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
        Genetically what is brown?
        The Agouti gene has 4 presentations - a (not affecting anything), A (bay), At (brown) and A+ (wild bay).

        I've just looked in Wikipedia, and now I'm wondering if many JC browns are just dark liver chestnut.
        TJC may well call a dark liver "brown", but mostly I think they get it right in the "dark bay/brown" category.

        The genetically black horse (E?aa) who has brown hairs on him usually gets listed as "dark bay/brown" though, which is a shame.

        Originally posted by netg View Post
        Does JC list horses as just brown? My guy's papers say dark bay/brown, and I don't remember seeing a horse listed as brown only.
        Just "brown" is not an option presented
        http://www.jockeyclub.com/registry.asp?section=3#color

        Just "dark bay/brown" as per your horse.
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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        • #5
          I've been told that my guy is brown, but we refer to him as the dark liver baynut. He has the agouti gene look, but his dark points are brown, not black and his mane and tail fade out to blonde very quickly with plum cherry highlights.

          https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-W...cobubblesa.jpg
          Rhode Islands are red;
          North Hollands are blue.
          Sorry my thoroughbreds
          Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :

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          • #6
            racetrack - more pictures? A tell-tale area will be his pasterns. If they are reddish in tint, whether light or dark, he's chestnut (liver in this case)
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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            • #7
              Racetrack - handsome boy! He looks dark liver to me. What were his parents?

              One of Cy's Tb sons has been tested and is brown. Pretty sure that Cy's half brother is as well.
              www.debracysporthorses.com
              Home of Sea Accounts xx
              AHS/HV, ATA, GOV, RPSI, JC, AQHA, APHA, APtHA
              "LIKE" www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts

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              • #8
                Has Cyriz been tested himself? I know he surely looks black, but having seen a "oh he HAS to be black" but tested brown horse, I don't make that assumption any more LOL
                ______________________________
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                • #9
                  Just wondering, is 'seal brown' genetically different from 'brown'?
                  A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

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                  • #10
                    No, seal is just a shade of brown, just like mahogany is a shade of bay.

                    There are other factors, untestable at this point, which determine shade.
                    ______________________________
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                    • #11
                      At one time they used to register horses as just brown ~

                      Seattle Slew

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        JB - Cyriz has been tested. He's hetero. black. I'm pretty sure his mom, Dance Account, whom PTF and I had the pleasure of owning at the end of her days, was dark brown...like espresso, almost black but just not.
                        www.debracysporthorses.com
                        Home of Sea Accounts xx
                        AHS/HV, ATA, GOV, RPSI, JC, AQHA, APHA, APtHA
                        "LIKE" www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts

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                        • #13
                          Thanks!

                          Sorry, I forgot about this thread. Here are some more pics of Basco (JC reg as Squillion). I call him Basco because he reminds me of chocolate syrup..lol.

                          That photos was taken in summer and he was a bit faded, but I have tons of others to post.

                          http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...orses1/266.jpg

                          http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...5-16-09024.jpg

                          http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...s1/pony023.jpg

                          https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

                          https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
                          Rhode Islands are red;
                          North Hollands are blue.
                          Sorry my thoroughbreds
                          Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Very interesting - I would definitely call Basco chesnut! I'm curious how he'd test.
                            Originally posted by Silverbridge
                            If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm still on the fence - not entirely convinced of liver. His pasterns really don't have a red hue to them like I'd expect.

                              This picture especially
                              http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...5-16-09024.jpg

                              would seem like it would HAVE to have shown red highlights on his lower legs.

                              I'm not saying he's not liver, his pedigree certainly doesn't help LOL But I'm just not convinced, yet, that he's not brown.
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by nasalberry View Post
                                At one time they used to register horses as just brown ~

                                Seattle Slew

                                Seattle Slew was registered as "Dark Bay or Brown" according to the Jockey Club:

                                http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pe...ts_indicator=Y

                                Data on PQ is all user entered and may or may not be accurate.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  yep, exactly, pedigreequery is not the official JC site. Storm Cat was also a dark brown, listed on pedigree as "br" but listed on equineline as "dark bay or brown"
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                                  • #18
                                    Do you need better pictures JB? Like closer up on his legs? I can take some this weekend if you let me know what you need.
                                    I will say his points are more brown than red, but in person people refer to them as reddish, so I'm no help at all..lol.
                                    Rhode Islands are red;
                                    North Hollands are blue.
                                    Sorry my thoroughbreds
                                    Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      LOL, no need to go out of your way. I just find these guys very very interesting because they are just not blatantly one way or the other.

                                      If you're up to some pics for grits and shiggles, then sure - some close up of his lower legs in bright, but not glaring light, and some of his ears, particularly the backs of them (looking at the tips in particular, but show the whole ear), it would be pretty interesting.
                                      ______________________________
                                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Years ago the JC simplified the registration decisions by combining two of the most problematic colors. They made one choice of "Dark Bay or Brown" and "Gray or Roan". Their only interest is identification, not genetics!! Same reason you see very few registered "Black" horses. Too much trouble. If the track identifer finds one red hair the papers go back to JC for a change.
                                        www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
                                        Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

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