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"Cyst like" structures at 18 days

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    "Cyst like" structures at 18 days

    My 3 yr old mare checked today with "2 cyst like structures at the base of the left horn that are not really indicative of embryos". He could not say that they are not embryos, but didn't really feel she was in foal either. She doesn't appear to be coming back in at this time & given her young age, he feels it's unlikely that they are cysts. This mare has been ultrasounded many times this year (everytime by UC Davis), no cysts were noted previously & we know she did double ovulate. We are at day 18 from the first ovulation. We are going to recheck on Friday & go from there. The "cysts" are slightly smaller than an 18 day pregnancy.

    Any thoughts from anyone? I'm hoping she's in foal, but I am not holding my breath.
    Last edited by spacely; Jul. 15, 2008, 02:12 AM. Reason: typo

    #2
    Just replied...over there

    I hope it works out for you - it would be a lovely match

    Comment


      #3
      We have a mare that develops cysts when she is bred. The last few years, they have grown in numbers, but are not present when she is open and not in heat. We left her open last year and this year, the cysts are not present ... go figure. We were told that she would need laser surgery, but it is kind of a tough nut when the cysts were largest and more numerous when she was in foal. Obviously there is a hormone factor with her that isn't coming into play this year. Good luck with your mare!

      Comment


        #4
        showjumpers - that is so interesting! I will have to ask the vet about this on Sunday..any reason why?

        Comment

          Original Poster

          #5
          GM, thanks. I replied over there. That pic does not do this mare justice at all.

          SJ, very interesting. I'll have to ask about that on Friday. The Dr was going to consult with another colleague about her & get back to me. He seemed a little stumped also.
          Last edited by spacely; Jul. 15, 2008, 02:13 AM. Reason: more typos!

          Comment


            #6
            SJ, I have a mare who does that too. She has one known cyst when ultrasounded pre-breeding, but after breeding she has a uterus full of them. This year it resulted in a lost pregnancy, because it turned out that one of the cysts was an embryo, making one too many embryos.

            spacely, I hope it turns out your mare is pregnant.
            Mystic Owl Sporthorses
            www.mysticowlsporthorses.com

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by spacely View Post
              My 3 yr old mare checked today with "2 cyst like structures at the base of the left horn that are not really indicative of embryos". He could not say that they are not embryos, but didn't really feel she was in foal either. She doesn't appear to be coming back in at this time & given her young age, he feels it's unlikely that they are cysts. This mare has been ultrasounded many times this year (everytime by UC Davis), no cysts were noted previously & we know she did double ovulate. We are at day 18 from the first ovulation. We are going to recheck on Friday & go from there. The "cysts" are slightly smaller than an 18 day pregnancy.
              I'm kinda scratching my head over this whole paragraph. The conceptus can have quite a variation in size - up to two days difference during the early stages of pregnancy- when viewed on ultrasound. Around day 16, the conceptus becomes "fixed" hopefully just to the right or left of the corpus corneal junction in either the left or right horn, so it sounds like your "pregnancy(ies)" are where they should be if indeed she is pregnant. Additionally, at around day 17, the conceptus loses it's "round" appearance on ultrasound and the edges become ragged and the entire shape becomes a bit more abstract (for lack of a better word).

              Any thoughts from anyone? I'm hoping she's in foal, but I am not holding my breath.
              Without having done the scanning myself, there's really not a whole lot I can offer, but you can go here to view ultrasound images of early pregnancies. If you have or got to see the ultrasound images, perhaps it will answer your questions. http://www.equine-reproduction.com/articles/embryo.htm

              Good luck!

              Kathy St.Martin
              Equine Reproduction Short Courses
              http://www.equine-reproduction.com
              Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
              Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

              Comment

                Original Poster

                #8
                I'm confused too. That is what he said & I have a scan of the note he left which says the same thing I quote above. Unfortunately I did not get to see the u/s. The mare is near UC Davis & I am near San Jose.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think we're in the same boat!

                  Our vet just checked our 18 y/o mare who was bred 16/17 days ago and I think we're in the same boat. Polly has multiple cysts - even when not pregnant or in season - and on today's ultrasound it was difficult to tell if what looked like it could be a conceptus was actually a cyst.

                  Vet also checked cervical tone and that was somewhat unclear as well since the tone was not great and the mare is on regumate (age). DId your vet check tone? Good tone may be a reassuring sign for you.

                  Our plan is to re-check in 10 days (day 27) and look for a heartbeat. If there isn't one I'm not sure what to do..

                  Comment


                    #10
                    One mare we bred this year had a cyst. I didn't realize that it was a protruding cyst and not one that was imbedded in her uterus. My vet was leery of breeding and suggested we have the cyst removed with lazer surgery. But after discussing cysts with various people we decided to go ahead and breed her. She did conceive, BUT the conceptus managed to lodge itself against the cyst (no nourishment) so never did develop a heart beat and we lost the pregnancy. We did not breed back and are planning on the mare having the lazer surgery to eliminate the cyst. So I guess there are many types of cysts in the uterus. We also had a problem with the mare retaining fluid while she was in season and my vet said it was becuase the fluid was attracted to the cyst. I'm sure he said it in more medical terms but that is how I understood it. I hope the surgery will eliminate the problems, breeding is too expensive to loose pregnancies.
                    Good Luck spacely I hope your mare has one conceptus that goes on to be a foal next year.
                    http://www.talloaksfarm.net ---"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts." --- Winston Churchill

                    Comment

                      Original Poster

                      #11
                      Clivers, we are rechecking on Friday. He originally suggested waiting a week, but if we are dealing with twins (I, as well as others, feel we are), then I want to get on it & address that issue. Good luck with your mare!

                      Thanks Talloaks! Good luck with your mare's surgery!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Since cysts are easily mistaken for pregnancies, and
                        *your mare did double ovulate
                        *no previous notation for cysts
                        *the pregnancy rate when a mare double ovulates is way up in the 80 - 90% range
                        *your cysts are within a normal size for the expected pregnancies
                        *mare not coming back in

                        my money is on 2 pregnancies.

                        Comment

                          Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                          Since cysts are easily mistaken for pregnancies, and
                          *your mare did double ovulate
                          *no previous notation for cysts
                          *the pregnancy rate when a mare double ovulates is way up in the 80 - 90% range
                          *your cysts are within a normal size for the expected pregnancies
                          *mare not coming back in

                          my money is on 2 pregnancies.
                          I hope you are right & if so, we can safely reduce.

                          Found out a bit more info about my situation....the Dr that checked my mare is not a part of the repro service, but is a general practitioner. I asked for the repro dept to check her but that didn't happen. I spoke to the Dr in the repro department today that has looked at her many times & she believes we are dealing with twins. She could not say for certain (understandbly), but she will recheck her on Friday & we will go from there. That gives me a bit more hope, but I'm still not holding my breath. Hopefully one of those "cysts" will have grown.
                          Last edited by spacely; Jul. 15, 2008, 09:37 PM.

                          Comment

                            Original Poster

                            #14
                            Just thougth I'd update. No pregnancy & no "cysts" to be found. She'll be left open this year.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I'm so sorry.
                              http://www.talloaksfarm.net ---"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts." --- Winston Churchill

                              Comment


                                #16
                                They must have been pregnancies, but maybe she was losing them, and that is why they didn't look right. Darn! I was keeping my hopes up for you.

                                Comment

                                  Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  FHC, that's what we think as well - that she did have twins & lost both. Oh well. I was so hoping, but I'm not surprised. We'll start early next year. She's also just off the track by 2 months & I do believe that sometimes mares need significant down time before they will catch & carry. JMHO.

                                  Thanks Talloaks. Here she is the day she came off the track so it's not the best picture.
                                  Attached Files

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Spacely, that is a nice mare, even though she is tucked up from just coming off the track and with that chain through her mouth, looks to be a lovely mare. I'm sure next year will be better for you and you can catch her earlier.
                                    Now I am wondering if my mare will be in foal, she will be checked on Tues for the first time. I hope so since I was using my regular vet with frozen for the first time. It was a last minute decision to breed her so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. This is not the mare with the cyst, but the one who had the QB filly.
                                    http://www.talloaksfarm.net ---"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts." --- Winston Churchill

                                    Comment

                                      Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Crossing everything for your mare.

                                      I know it's not the best pic, but it's what I have. I don't like the chain in her mouth either, but that is what the trainer did & it's not uncommon at the track. She was racing fit in that pic so she is tucked up. She's let down & gained a bunch of weight since & doesn't need a chain for anything.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Hey spacely, don't get me wrong, I think your mare is lovely and should do well as a broodmare!! I don't see anything wrong with her at all.
                                        http://www.talloaksfarm.net ---"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts." --- Winston Churchill

                                        Comment

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