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Trakehner Breeders - Input

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  • Trakehner Breeders - Input

    Hey all,

    I am hoping to get some feedback on my new mare. I don't know much about the Trakehner breed so would love to have someone read her pedigree who could tell me a little bit about how she is bred.

    I know her sire Horalas *Pg* *E* is from Lithuania and was ridden by HH in the Jumpers. I have read that some people felt he wasn't up to the level of competition (say at the Olympic trials) he was competing in but don't know more than that. Or if that is even true or fair.

    She was bred by the owner of the dam and this was her first time breeding a horse. The dam was a successful low-level eventer who retired do to ringbone at 18.

    I am planning to event this mare and wondered if her lines predispose her to success in this? She is a great mover and fantastic jumper so she has the 'tools' for the job.

    She is branded and got good scores at her inspection. I am wondering if there is anymore I need to do as far as her registration (she has ATA papers) is concerned. Her breeder mentioned she thought she still had one more 'phase' to complete?

    I would like to know a little more about the breed in general.

    I'm eager to learn so welcome input from all the breeders/trainers/riders out there who are familiar with the breed and can give me more information about my little girls bloodlines.

    Her pedigree can be seen at here.
    Loved. Thankful. Blessed.

  • #2
    Her lines are not common in the US

    I have owned a couple of trakehners but am by no means an expert. I can tell you that your mare's lines are not extremely common in the US, as Horalas is not German and most traks in the US are from German lines. So, many of the stallions here in the US would be an outcross for her and therefore you have a lot of choices. What are her conformation strengths and weaknesses, i.e. what are you looking to improve about her?

    Comment


    • #3
      Congratulations on your new mare! With regards to eventing, this is actually a very interesting pedigree.

      You already know about her sire Horalas *Pg*E* - and I'd take exception to those who feel he may not've been up to same level of competition as he won several GP's and was highly placed in others - including the 1.6M ATB Financial Cup @ Spruce Meadows. In addition, I've seen video of him competing in the 6-bar @ Spuce Meadows (which requires an insane amount of strength - not to mention courage and jumping ability). Moreover, among Horalas' approved sons in Lithuania at least 1 is a GP jumper, so he passes this ability on.

      The dam's sire sadly died at the age of 11, so another "what might have been" but as only a 4yo was USDF HOY - 4th @ Training Level so you have dressage influence from the dam's side (BTW, several Faber offspring later did well in both Dressage and Eventing). I'm not terribly versed in TB bloodlines, so hopefully someone else will be able to comment.

      So, IMO you have a very nice recipe for future eventing success: a 1/4 TB, sired by an International GP Jumper (who is also fully approved by the German Trakehner Verband based on his success in jumping) out of a dam who's sire was successful in dressage at a very young age.

      Some sites you may want to visit to learn more about the breed in general:
      www.holdershill.com (Horalas *Pg*E* is stationed here)
      www.americantrakehner.com
      www.trakehners-international.com
      www.atrakehner.com (multiple Trakehner forums)

      It will be fun watching this one start her career. Best of luck!
      Owner of ATA and Verband-Approved Trakehner stallion, Tzigane *Pb*, breeder of ATA-approved Semper Fidelis

      www.twingates.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Lucky_Break View Post

        She is branded and got good scores at her inspection. I am wondering if there is anymore I need to do as far as her registration (she has ATA papers) is concerned. Her breeder mentioned she thought she still had one more 'phase' to complete?
        On registration, this link will take you to the Transfer of Ownership form the ATA will need to recorded you as new owner. If you have other questions you can PM me: http://americantrakehner.com/Forms/O...pTrsfrFORM.htm

        If she "has one more phase" to complete she may have been evaluated as a foal (foals can be voluntarily inspected and receive scores - as well as their purebred brand) but for main studbook a mare must be inspected at 3yrs or more.
        Owner of ATA and Verband-Approved Trakehner stallion, Tzigane *Pb*, breeder of ATA-approved Semper Fidelis

        www.twingates.com

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          This is great feedback! Thank you guys! I am well versed in TB bloodlines so can 'read' those easily. I've always been into OTTB's but have thought over the years that I'd like a warmblood one day. This mare is very exciting as she shows so much promise and I hope she will be successful and then be able to contribute to the breed in the future if she is.

          It sounds like her lines are fairly uncommon and that was what I had been running up against... finding any thing really to help me decipher how her pedigree stacked up.

          Overall, she is put together very well with an incredible neck and super strong topline/haunch. However she still looks quite immature in many ways. So one thing I've wondered about: am I right in my understanding that this breed will not really mature fully until around 6? She's 16hh now, her dam is about 15.3/16hh so I wonder if she will grow at all.

          She's had 90 days when she turned 3 - then sat for a year and now I've had her a week. It's been quite fun. Thank you guys for all the help! I really appreciate it!

          I'll be PM'ing you Twin Gates! Thank you!!!!

          Photos of her are here.
          Loved. Thankful. Blessed.

          Comment


          • #6
            All of what Kim (Twin Gates) said... Also, just wanted to mention that Horalas really doesn't have that many offspring in the grand scheme of things here in the US which makes her even more "unusual". Congrats on your lovely girl.

            I'm pretty positive that she has not been inspected which would be the "next step" for her for full papers. You want to transfer her ownership to your name (if you haven't been a member before you will get a free one year membership with the ATA so this is something you want to do sooner rather than later! ) and if she is ready you will want to take her to a mare inspection to have her approved for breeding.

            Trakehners can/do grow for a long time... I have a coming 5 year old who just grew another inch over the winter and doesn't look "finished" to me, and my 6 year old stallion is still maturing/filling out etc. Some lines in particular are more prone to slow growing (and some of those lines that my stallion has are in your mare's dam's pedigree albeit a way back) so it isn't outside the realm of possiblity that she may grow up and more than likely will still fill out more.

            She is lovely - congrats and good luck. And welcome to the wonderful world of Trakehners! (btw - not sure where you are but the ATA Convention this year will be in KY, great time/place to meet other TK owners and see a bunch of Trakehners - stallions, mares, and foals - gathered in one place.
            Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!

            Comment


            • #7
              what a lovely mare. Congrats on her

              I had never heard of her sire before, and looked at the website, and he seems really lovely.
              I have CDO. It's like OCD, but all the letters are in alphabetical order, as they should be!

              Comment


              • #8
                Do you have her inspection scores?
                www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Oakstable View Post
                  Do you have her inspection scores?
                  Her dam, Faber Dancing Limits, was inspected in August 2009 and her scores were:
                  7, 6/6, 6/6/7, 7.

                  The filly, then a two year old, was presented for voluntary inspection and her scores were: 7,8,7.

                  The inspection took place at Blessed Fields Trakehners, in Marysville , Washington and the inspector was Dr. Neal Westgerdes.
                  http://sporthorsesnw.com/
                  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sport...01526589966216

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Thanks you all for all of the information! Twin Gates has been filling me in a little bit and it seems I have a LOT to learn and I'm eager to do so. As Elie posted she got 7/8/7 - I guess those are 'okay' scores? Being an OTTB girl I don't really understand (except in an arbitrary way) if those are bad/average/good, etc.

                    I am very excited to have her and she seems to be bonding to me quickly. Twin Gates gave me a run down on the unique Trak personalities and I'll have to say the description matches her to a 'T'. I hope she loves her future job!

                    Keep all the information coming guys. I'm in WA state so won't be able to make it to the convention but am grateful for all the input and information.
                    Loved. Thankful. Blessed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lucky_Break View Post
                      As Elie posted she got 7/8/7 - I guess those are 'okay' scores? Being an OTTB girl I don't really understand (except in an arbitrary way) if those are bad/average/good, etc.
                      In young horse scores an 8/8/8 is considered premium, so yes, Luna's scores are quite good. Personally, I pay very little attention to young horse scores. Warmbloods can go thru some very strange phases - one day they look and move great; the next you want to hide 'em behind the barn!

                      These are sport horses so while scores are nice (and necessary for mares to move into the Official Stud Book), they're only a snapshot in time. What IS important is how the horse performs for the rider - regardless of whether you compete or ride for pleasure (but w/these bloodlines, we certainly hope you compete her!).
                      Owner of ATA and Verband-Approved Trakehner stallion, Tzigane *Pb*, breeder of ATA-approved Semper Fidelis

                      www.twingates.com

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Twin Gates you are the CATS WHISKERS! Thank you! I am so grateful for all the encouragement. I'm hoping she will make her debut in eventing this fall - earlier if she is ready but I don't want to rush her.

                        I can tell I have a lot to learn! I'll definitely look into getting her in the mare book when the inspection dates come out!

                        You guys are great! Thank you again!
                        Loved. Thankful. Blessed.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          HORALAS *Pg*E* AT SPRUCE MEADOWS

                          To the question of whether your girl's sire was "up to the level of competition he was competing at", I offer you two videos of Horalas *Pg*E* at Spruce Meadows:


                          Video 1 - Chrysler Cup: http://youtu.be/2OAMpUzf8F8

                          Video 2 - ATCO Electric 6-Bar: http://youtu.be/W5Xzi8O3x7E

                          The 6-bar video is the one that made me fall in love with this stallion because the strength, honesty, courage and athleticism required to do 6 jumps in a row - each slightly higher than the last (final jump is just over 6') with 2 strides in between each - is just incredible.
                          Owner of ATA and Verband-Approved Trakehner stallion, Tzigane *Pb*, breeder of ATA-approved Semper Fidelis

                          www.twingates.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Lucky Break, you'll probably soon figure out that there is no greater enemy to the Trakehner horse than Trakehner breeders :-)

                            Horalas has jumped at a level that no other Trakehner since Abdullah and Almox Prints has. Yet from the beginning, he was "known for bad feet, bad temperament, bad what have you" and I always just scratched my head in wonder. He has 5 approved sons in Europe, and at least 2 approved grand sons (that also happened to do very well at their performance test). His get competed internationally. You will hardly find a more honest, hard working stallion than Horalas. He is a highly athletic animal with a proven record - and apparently envy is easy to come by. He's certainly not the perfect stallion for every mare, BUT NO STALLIOIN IS.

                            You should really count yourself lucky to have a daughter of him, and here is some video of his son Fiatas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ6Fg...eature=related.

                            Best of luck with her!
                            www.trakehners-international.com
                            www.fontana-syndikat.de

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              well all I can say....

                              Is naysayers who cares, this thread has certainly pushed up my excitement level for the Horalas foal I am expecting this year!
                              I too scratch my head with the lack of attention. If I was in a different place $$ this year I'd be putting a bid in the ATA auction NOW. Unheard of to breed to a stallion of this caliber at the stud fee I received.
                              Good luck with you mare, I think she is lovely!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I noticed Horalas has no bids in the ATA auction
                                (NO I am not in the market, just curious)
                                I wasn't always a Smurf
                                Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                                "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                                The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Just remember, your new girl is a baby...once she hits 7 she'll be great.

                                  I don't recognize any of her pedigree (used to the German stuff)...lots of TBs though (which can help)...I like a little arab in the mix too.

                                  As far as her sire's personality quirks...well, Abdullah was almost a gelding because he was such a foul thing when he was young.

                                  Have fun with her, they're my favourite breed...what a surprise, eh?
                                  "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Adagio View Post
                                    Is naysayers who cares, this thread has certainly pushed up my excitement level for the Horalas foal I am expecting this year!
                                    I too scratch my head with the lack of attention. If I was in a different place $$ this year I'd be putting a bid in the ATA auction NOW. Unheard of to breed to a stallion of this caliber at the stud fee I received.
                                    Good luck with you mare, I think she is lovely!
                                    From personal experience I will say that he may not have as many breedings due to where he USED to stand. I found it ... challenging... to get semen. The current location though is wonderful and I have no doubt there will be more of his kids out there.
                                    Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      SSA's Like Ebay

                                      Originally posted by carolprudm View Post
                                      I noticed Horalas has no bids in the ATA auction
                                      (NO I am not in the market, just curious)
                                      Yes, but that won't last. Mare owners have become very strategic w/SSA bidding; all now work similar to ebay. If their stallion of choice can get to the last day w/o having to bid against others they're able to get the service at bigger discount - in another few hrs it'll be a free-for-all. )
                                      Owner of ATA and Verband-Approved Trakehner stallion, Tzigane *Pb*, breeder of ATA-approved Semper Fidelis

                                      www.twingates.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Lucky_Break View Post
                                        Hey all,

                                        I am hoping to get some feedback on my new mare. I don't know much about the Trakehner breed so would love to have someone read her pedigree who could tell me a little bit about how she is bred.

                                        I know her sire Horalas *Pg* *E* is from Lithuania and was ridden by HH in the Jumpers. I have read that some people felt he wasn't up to the level of competition (say at the Olympic trials) he was competing in but don't know more than that. Or if that is even true or fair.

                                        She was bred by the owner of the dam and this was her first time breeding a horse. The dam was a successful low-level eventer who retired do to ringbone at 18.

                                        I am planning to event this mare and wondered if her lines predispose her to success in this? She is a great mover and fantastic jumper so she has the 'tools' for the job.

                                        She is branded and got good scores at her inspection. I am wondering if there is anymore I need to do as far as her registration (she has ATA papers) is concerned. Her breeder mentioned she thought she still had one more 'phase' to complete?

                                        I would like to know a little more about the breed in general.

                                        I'm eager to learn so welcome input from all the breeders/trainers/riders out there who are familiar with the breed and can give me more information about my little girls bloodlines.

                                        Her pedigree can be seen at here.
                                        Hi,

                                        this is Horalas bloodline http://www.rustrakehner.ru/horse.php...rif=1&id=14370

                                        I knew his granfather Portas http://www.rustrakehner.ru/horse.php...erif=1&id=2765

                                        We had several offsprings of Portas in mid-nineties fabulous horses !!! I am from Lithuania myself. My family used to breed horses when I was a child. I remember all these names

                                        I remember how Portas used to crash everything on his path to mare during mating... he was a stunning powerful stallion! produced perfect babies !! )

                                        Those bloodlines a highly valued in Easter Europe.

                                        Enjoy your mare !!

                                        Comment

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