• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Selling egg's / lending out your mare's uterus ...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Selling egg's / lending out your mare's uterus ...

    I have someone who I am negotiating with to do an ET breeding with one of my mares.

    They will select the stallion (with my final approval). They will pay all vet, transportation, board, etc charges. All I am doing is delivering my mare to the repro centre on a given day, picking her up when she is ready to come home and they are paying $XXXX.XX for her egg and the use of her uterus to produce a custom made foal.

    Once the recipient mare is implanted with the viable embryo and all is good, my part of the equation is done and thats it and life goes on for my mare and for me

    Who has been involved in this sort of scenario before? Do you have a contract that you could email to me at: truecolours@xplornet.com

    How many tries are fair for both sides? From my perspective, since I am not trying to breed this mare myself this year, it is immaterial to me if they try once or 5 times to get it done.

    When would the agreed price be payable? Up front? When the mare is inseminated? When the embryo is implanted into the recipient mare? What if - at 30 or 60 days, the embryo is lost - should all of the money be refunded? Half of it? Any of it? How is it addressed if a Live Foal is not produced but by that time *I* have bred the mare or she has been sold and/or she is no longer available on an ET basis. How is that handled and addressed?

    Many thanks for any/all comments and suggestions!
    www.TrueColoursFarm.com
    www.truecoloursproducts.com

    True Colours Farm on Facebook

  • #2
    We would be interested in receiving information about this as well. We offered our Alla'Czar mare for a similar arrangement. Ultimately it did not work out because the one interested party balked at paying us a fee for the use of our mare!!! But surely there will be interest in future about such a "custom foal" arrangement. Please post or PM us if you have now or receive in future further information in this regard. TIA!
    Sakura Hill Farm
    Now on Facebook

    Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.

    Comment


    • #3
      That is crazy that they thought you would risk your lovely mare for FREE! My mare had a HORRIBLE delivery this year, she almost died. And she's young and healthy (and recovering well thankfully). Even a modest fee for the use of your mare and her egg would be reasonable.
      * Sunny * Ella (2006 filly) * Tank (2008 colt)*

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sunny's Mom View Post
        That is crazy that they thought you would risk your lovely mare for FREE! My mare had a HORRIBLE delivery this year, she almost died. And she's young and healthy (and recovering well thankfully). Even a modest fee for the use of your mare and her egg would be reasonable.
        With ET (Embryo Transfer) the mare contributing the egg does not have to carry or deliver the foal. The use of her uterus would be very brief (until the embryo was recovered). I suppose there are always things that could go wrong but delivery is not one of them.

        Comment


        • #5
          In the case of the sale of the egg, one would expect to receive payment for the egg, not the use of the uterus. In the case of a "custom foal", one would expect a fee for the use of the uterus. Two different concepts.
          Sakura Hill Farm
          Now on Facebook

          Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm just curious, what sort of fee do you imagine there would be for the egg? Would it be similar to a stud fee?
            Last edited by mistyjewell; Jul. 10, 2008, 07:41 PM.
            ---------------------------

            ~Once you have ridden the tiger it is impossible to dismount~

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mistyjewell View Post
              I'm just curious, what sort of fee do you imagine there would be for the egg? Would ie be similar to a stud fee?
              When I inquired about a successful hunter-mare, legit 6-figure horse who has shown & won a lot, it was a bit less than a stud fee...

              Comment


              • #8
                I think I would charge a fee at least equivalent to the stud fee. It does cause a certain amount of trauma to a mare's system to be inseminated and flushed for an ET, and I would certainly want to be compensated for that, esp. considering the off chance that her future reproductive capabilities may be compromised by the procedures (rare, but possible).

                I can't believe anyone would expect a mare owner to just offer up their mare's reproductive system for free. If someone values your mare enough to want an egg/embryo from her, then they ought to be willing to pay for it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Most of these type deals I know of DO offer a LFG (or 1/2 fee escrowed) and a fee under 4K
                  "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
                  Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
                  Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
                  Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    In this particular case, the client would select the stallion to be used, my mare would be inseminated and then the embryo (hopefully!) flushed at Day 6 and implanted into the recipient mare

                    So the trauma to my mare is extremely minimal (to non existent???), her downtime is nil, I dont want her super ovulated at all as they are just trying for the one embryo and thats it, and the stress would be non existent to her as well as she is well used to being shuttled around ...

                    I know when I asked around on this a year ago, I got in contact with some AQHA people on this and they had one mare who had amassed so many points and was so well bred and regarded, they got $10,000.00 per egg from her. You selected the stallion, you paid everything and she made her mare available to you. And another Andalusian breeder I spoke to with some very fancy, imported Andalusians was in the same league - $10,000.00 per egg and you paid everything on top of that.

                    I guess if these mares are legitimately worth in the solid six figure ranges,
                    most people would not be in a position to buy them even if they were for sale, so for a small percentage of their worth, they get the chance at producing something very very special ...

                    And I am flabbergasted as well that ANYONE would think that a mare and / or her uterus and/or her eggs and/or her embryo's would be offerred up free of charge ...
                    www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                    www.truecoloursproducts.com

                    True Colours Farm on Facebook

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TrueColours View Post
                      I got in contact with some AQHA people on this and they had one mare who had amassed so many points and was so well bred and regarded, they got $10,000.00 per egg from her.
                      Well, having a neighbor who does the AQHA stuff, it seems like they like to spend big-time $$$$ on what most would never think of....that number doesn't surpise me at all, and the same with the 'specialty' breeds, Icelandic's, Gypsie's, etc.


                      Another mare I looked at, who has produced multiple 6-figure hunters, was offered for around 1k...

                      I think the prices would also increase if you are looking to produce a true international jumper or dressage horse.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There is a DSHB dressage mare named Dot Com, not sure that she was ever beat. You can get a frozen embryo from her. I believe from a selection of stallions.. for about 4k. She is also available for custom ET foals for around the same amount.

                        I know of a Grand Prix dressage mare you can have LFG for 2K

                        Didn't they also do this with Rox Dene? I believe it was affordable...

                        ANYTIME you invade a mare, there is risk....there should be SOME fee to cover risk alone..
                        "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
                        Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
                        Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
                        Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So the mare, Dot Com, you said embryo, so does that mean it's already fertilized? So the $4k would then be the egg plus the stud fee, which depending on the stallion, would work out to be $2k ish for the egg?
                          ---------------------------

                          ~Once you have ridden the tiger it is impossible to dismount~

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mistyjewell View Post
                            So the mare, Dot Com, you said embryo, so does that mean it's already fertilized? So the $4k would then be the egg plus the stud fee, which depending on the stallion, would work out to be $2k ish for the egg?
                            correct... that is frozen embryo, includes stud fee and egg costs... you are 2/3 of the way there with a frozen embryo...
                            "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
                            Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
                            Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
                            Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Didn't they also do this with Rox Dene? I believe it was affordable...
                              No. We made an attempt to do embryo transfer, for ourselves and for a few close friends with their own stallions, when she was first retired, but the technology at the time was too new to be productive, and MUCH more expensive than it is now, so even if it had been successful it wouldn't have been particularly "affordable" for anyone.
                              We did do one embryo transfer for ourselves later after she had carried her own foals. I've had many people inquire since about using her for their own embryo transfers, but, frankly, she doesn't find the procedure at all stress-free and I don't consider it worth it at any price to put her at risk for someone else's foal, or even our own at this point.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                $4000.00 for an embryo seems incredibly low unless you own the mare and the stallion and you have a special deal worked out with the vet!

                                I know one clinic here is $3500.00 for the entire procedure, plus the stud fee, another vet has quoted $1500.00 plus any/all drugs required, plus the stud fee.

                                The lady that is looking into doing this with my mare is in the $3700.00 - $4500.00 range for vet fees alone at a very well respected clinic so I dont know how anyone could sell an embryo for $4000.00 unless they super ovulated the mare and had several embryo's frozen at the same time ...
                                www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                                www.truecoloursproducts.com

                                True Colours Farm on Facebook

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  No, it's $4000 plus expenses. Scroll down to embryos for sale. They also sell embryos from SPS Whoopy. http://www.marideehanoverians.com/forsale.html

                                  Is your client after Faux Finish's eggs?
                                  Can you PM me what you decide on price?

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by One is Enough View Post
                                    No, it's $4000 plus expenses. Scroll down to embryos for sale. They also sell embryos from SPS Whoopy. http://www.marideehanoverians.com/forsale.html
                                    It is $4000 plus expenses for using DotCom Or Whoopy for your own ET..

                                    That is NOT the price of the already frozen embryos from Whoopy. The price is a set price, NOT plus expenses... you buy the actual already frozen embryo. My apologies that I did not check the site for the exact details prior to posting, as I did not know they were posted. I do not remember exact cost, but it was VERY reasonable and less than 5 K.

                                    The Grand Prix mare was 2K ( plus expenses) for LFG , I considered her for myself...

                                    Sorry it did not work out better with Rox Dene,

                                    I had considered offering our foundation mare Alpenglow ( when she was alive) to others too, but I was concerned for the time at the clinic... I did not feel she was very well cared for at the first clinic I sent her to and the bill to me was over $8000...The recipient mare I received was a TOTAL nutcase, and dangerous. I could not wait to get her off my farm. The ET I did at home had cost about $750 above the cost of a normal breeding, and I had my own , very reliable recipient mare. Luckily both resulting ET daughters have proven their worth over and over...
                                    "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
                                    Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
                                    Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
                                    Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      One is Enough - correct. I actually have 2 in the works now that I am speaking with and have to figure out - logistically - how to make it happen to be fair to both of them as well as to the mare.

                                      I will PM you now ...
                                      www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                                      www.truecoloursproducts.com

                                      True Colours Farm on Facebook

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        There is growing evidence that repeated flushes can cause some wear and tear to the donor mare's uterus that can be detrimental. I was asked about selling embryos from one of my girls last year and declined because I prefer to take the risk of an ET and the benefits myself. Food for thought.
                                        Mary Lou
                                        http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                                        https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                                        Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X