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Stallions that consistently produce quality offspring?

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  • Stallions that consistently produce quality offspring?

    I was just curious of which stallions are consistently producing offspring with: Correct gaits, good temperament & are of modern build. Especially, Stallions that seem to improve the canter.

    I do understand that the mare has a lot to do with it but in general. Some stallions can be bred to a variety of mares and seem to have consistent traits shown in most of their offspring.

    Fresh or Frozen.
    Last edited by Monet Sport Horses; Jan. 6, 2012, 06:19 PM. Reason: editing

  • #2
    Bugatti Hilltop is the first one that comes to mind. Prepare for this list to get very long.

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    • #3
      Fidertanz has given me exceptional foals every time.


      • #4
        I like the Cartano everything I have seen from him is freakishly scopey, and they all tend to look the same despite different mare lines. I am also a fan of the few Presley Boy babies I have met, lovely in every way shape and form, I am not sure if he is still available to the public though?


        • #5
          My list of consistant producers is incredibly short. You can have some that are consistant for certain traits, but do not forget the mare plays a HUGE part in this.

          Donnerhall produced great walks, super work ethic, power and talent for collected work, but a bit heavy at times and not nessesarily pretty.
          Rubinstein produced a wonderful ridability, good type, but light hindquarters.
          Florestan produced power, bone, longer backs, expression in the gaits but again, a bit heavy and old fashioned.
          Sandro Hit, super type, great expression in trot. Lacks substance in foundation and is known as a walk "destroyer"

          Modern Day Stallions:
          Sir Donnerhall- pretty types, three correct gaits
          Fidertanz- good minds, can be heavy, but powerful.
          Wolkentanz I and II- the best of the Weltmeyer line. Good type, three good gaits.
          Royal Prince- very nice type, good foundation, three correct gaits with walk being a highlight. From all accounts, a good mind as well
          Bugatti has had a good competition career. His offspring look like him, and he is on the smaller side. He himself, has what appears to be three correct gaits and good mind and work ethic.
          Don Principe- modern type, very nice conformation, three very correct gaits with walk and canter being exceptional. GP career. Produces better than himself in type and expression of gaits. Walk is always improved on with any mare. Passes on an exceptional work ethic and personality that prefers people over other horses 100% of the time( disclaimer-I stand this stallion and know most of his kids personally)
          Londonderry produces a consistant type and three very nice gaits.
          Maryanna Haymon- Marydell Farm - Home to Don Principe & Doctor Wendell MF
          2012 USDF Champion Breeder! 2007, 2011 USEF Champ Breeder
          2009,2010,2011 USDF Res Breeder of the Year!


          • #6
            Originally posted by Marydell View Post

            Bugatti has had a good competition career. His offspring look like him, and he is on the smaller side. He himself, has what appears to be three correct gaits and good mind and work ethic.
            IME, I agree with everything except:

            1-I think his offspring in general resemble the mare, in terms of type, and
            2-He is not on the smaller side (if size is what you meant). He is 16.3 hands and substantial. In fact, I bred to him twice to my refined mare (who is only 16.1). Her coming 2 year old son is 16 hands already with a TON of bone. Her yearling is looking like he will be the same way. I've seen smaller offspring, but I think he tends to throw height.

            I definitely think Bugatti reliably throws a calmer, laid back temperament.
            Last edited by Callaway; Jan. 6, 2012, 08:35 AM.
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            • #7
              Shakespeare RSF
              Take a look for yourself. All of the foals I bred and the first two under saddle are on my website. First foals to be shown in hand this year were very successful, including second place colt and filly and reserve champion foal at Dressage at Devon. Multiple premiums, Foals of Distinction, top colt/ filly at inspections. Shakespeare is competing himself and is presently in FL with my trainer being trained by Lisa Wilcox courtesy of a grant from The Dressage Foundation.
              Large Oldenburg and Hanoverian breeding farm
              Standing Shakespeare RSF, Fhitzgerald, Sir James and the homebred stallion Dheputy.


              • #8
                De Niro


                • #9
                  So many great suggestions all ready! Just to add to the already great list... I like Rousseau's offspring consistently as well! Although he is a little larger boned, I have seen many of his offspring who are much more modern.

                  Another one I have been keeping my eye on is UB40. He's more recently caught my eye, and I've only seen a handful of his offspring... but I've been really impressed thus far!

                  And dudleyc... I love your quote with Lendon! ROTFL!
                  Piedmont Sporthorses


                  • #10
                    Dressage Royal
                    Watermark Farm
                    Watermark Farm Facebook Fan Page
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                    • #11
                      Irish Draught breeders like to keep the traditional build along with the temperment and abilities the breed is known for. With that in mind I think Touch of the Blues RID and Snowford Bellman RID are the most significant sires in the North American RID herd.

                      Both stallions have produced super purebreds and the more modern type halfbreds
                      I wasn't always a Smurf
                      Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                      "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                      The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


                      • #12
                        The only horse I can say satisfies all your requirements both from what I have seen, and from what I also understand from many breeders, is Royal Prince.

                        He actually has many horses undersaddle, ridden by amateurs and professionals alike (unlike many of the other horses talked about here). You can spot his offspring from a mile away (or on a tiny youtube video ).
                        On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog


                        • #13
                          Wolkentanz II


                          • #14
                            Roc USA. Consistently has been producing very good athletes. I have been very pleased by how well his get do given that he doesn't breed a huge volume of mares. He produces hunters, jumpers, and conformation horses. Although he is mostly bred for the H/J market, I think he has some offspring that could be very competitve as dressage or event horses as well.

                            He has sired a USEF national champion for the past three years (Role Model - USEF 5yr old jumper champion, Morocco-USEF high A/O jumper, Roc My World - 3 yr old hunter breeding). Rendezvous 22 Midwest 7 year old young jumper champion, Retro Girl IHF Reserve Champion 3 year old, Renowned winner 1st year green @ WEF, Roc Star winner Pregreen Hunter @ WEF, Roc's Lalique Pregreen winner @ WEF. These are just a few. There are also many other zone and regional champions, Mare performance test winners, inspection site champions and premium mares and foals.
                            Entropy Farm
                            Home of Roc USA
                            I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Callaway View Post
                              IME, I agree with everything except:

                              1-I think his offspring in general resemble the mare, in terms of type, and
                              2-He is not on the smaller side (if size is what you meant). He is 16.3 hands and substantial. I've seen smaller offspring, but I think he tends to throw height.

                              I definitely think Bugatti reliably throws a calmer, laid back temperament.
                              I agree with you Callaway. Bugatti is 16.3 (and having been next to him many times, he is tall). And I think that they also more often look like the mare. He does produce a nice calm and trainable temperament.
                              Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/edgewoodmeadowfarm


                              • #16
                                Wedderlie Mardi Gras...he really stamps his foals!


                                • #17
                                  Take a look at Benidetto (Belissimo m/sps Cordoba)

                                  Super canters, elastic, modern uphill and just beautiful!!

                                  He himself is very rideable!!! Trucking right along! On developing young horse track!!

                                  His offspring are almost all inspection winners, even in Germany one was reserve champion at the Hanoverian foal championship!!

                                  First foal crop is starting under saddle now and getting raving reports about movement and how fast they learn!

                                  See more on www.walnut-farm.com
                                  And www.hiddenacresdressage.com
                                  Linda Woltz
                                  standing Benidetto (Belissimo M/SPS COrdoba)


                                  • #18
                                    interesting question by the OP but the true answer is:
                                    there is no such stallion out there.
                                    if there was, he would be used consistently ever since his first get became proven under saddle up until his death with constantly high breeding figures.
                                    no stallion i am aware of is or has been used at constantly high breeding figures up until his death. and most stallions in fact suffer a lack of breeding figures even before their first get has the chance to prove under saddle.

                                    why is that?

                                    a) because every stallion has to suit the indvidual mare in question - while many (few) are able to improve many mares, none is able to improve ANY given mare. even of those stallions who are known to pass on certain features at a high degree, none of them is able to improve even these features constantly with any given mare.
                                    from all the stallions people have mentioned in this topic i can only judge about the ones who are or have been available in germany for breeding as those are the ones i have seen foals and (ideally) matured horses by.
                                    while i have seen many good horses by many of them i have seen as many suboptimal horses by all of them, too. that simply is a selfunderstood given circumstance by the law of nature. just that suboptimal progeny never makes it to the surface of well bespoken media/websides etc.

                                    b) the nature of (well thought of) breeding has it that ideally the desired breeding progress is reached with the next generation. after all, that is the goal any serious breeder aims for.
                                    this logic has it that even the best stallion (or mare) eventually gets outperformed by the one or the other progeny. if that wasn't the case we should stop breeding immediately since then breeding was degrated to simply producing and increasing numbers rather than improving for a certain goal.
                                    and while there are most certainly stallions out there who deserve the lable "timeless" or "classic" (don schufro for instance) even these classic heroes are being outperfomed by some of their individual progenies at least with respect to the one or the other feature that eventually makes them more desired over their sire.

                                    c) so if you amend the rather unrealistic question "Stallions that consistently produce quality offspring?" to "Stallions that seem to improve the canter" that makes up for a lot of stallions to be mentioned - however, even these will only be able to improve a single feature (canter) on a certain quota based on the individual mare and even full siblings are no gurantee for equally given quality. usually anything from 50% onwards is already a very good quota to qualify the stallion being a consistent producer for a single given feature.
                                    quotas beyond 70-80% are highly unrealistic and come closer to cloning rather than breeding.

                                    frustrating, but at the same time this is what makes breeding so fascinating :-)



                                    • #19
                                      I could throw down a list of stallions that I've seen some great babies from. They'd include some of the ones already mentioned, especially Don Principe. But, I don't have enough direct experience with multiple babies by these stallions to really offer an opinion.

                                      Of all the babies I've *personally* known in recent years (and watched them grow from when they hit the ground to under tack), only one stallion seems to throw similar gorgeous movement, conformation, and that elusive 'born broke' brain time after time after time. That would be Fabuleux. Looking for canter improvement..he's improved every mare I know who has been bred to him.

                                      I will also say that there is a "R" line stallion (who everyone on these boards seems to rave about) whose babies I've known personally to have among the worst work ethics I've ever seen.

                                      I guess that in the end, it really is something of a crap shoot.
                                      Show me your horse and I will tell you who you are.