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Broodmare Sires

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  • Broodmare Sires

    You often see studs refered to as great broodmare sires. What characteristics make a stallion a broodmare sire? Who are some of the greats?
    There are stars in the Southern sky and if ever you decide you should go there is a taste of time sweetened honey.

  • #2
    I think Carentino is a great broodmare sire; his quality of mare's is indicative of this, but much removed from that, I can't say what makes a great broodmare sire.

    I always wonder about that statement, but I guess it comes down to the fact that the best offspring are consistently mares. There best qualities are somehow related to that X chromosome....who knows...Does make me wonder if prehaps they are less prepotent then the great mares they are bred to....

    I can't wait to hear the responses though!


    • #3
      It's a stallion that has a propensity for producing really good fillies/mares and their foals are very good. I don't know what warmbloods that might apply to but in Thoroughbreds, two that come to mind are Secretariat and Graustark. Their sons that went to stud were not as remarkable as one might expect, but their daughters were wonderful producers. Some stallions might go either way or are sires of sires -- that might seem to apply to Sandro Hit and Donnerhall in the warmbloods. Thoroughbred sire of sires would be such as Nasrullah, Bold Ruler, Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector. You usually don't see the pattern until the stallion is older because it has to develop and become evident through their children and grandchildren as they are mature enough to reproduce. It also is usually reserved for those stallions that are bred a good bit to really bring it out. So, who knows which ones "fall through the cracks". JMHO


      • #4
        What the term "broodmare sire" means to me is that the stallion's direct offspring, both mares and stallions/geldings did not show the talent themselves, but it is showing up in the daughter's offspring. I first heard the term used for Secretariat, when his offspring, both colts and fillies were not seeming to live up to the expectations. Then along came his daughters offspring.

        This is something that may not show up in warmblood breeding, as breeders usually breed what "appears to be their best", and ride the rest. If the "talent" skips a generation, the daughters may not be bred in the numbers to see a patern.
        Last edited by Fairview Horse Center; Jul. 1, 2008, 09:31 PM.


        • #5
          For me it means a stallion who's daughters seem to produce better than the sons. Ie the stallion hasn't produced many liscenced stallions ect but has produced mares who are very good all around producers. Matcho AA is one that I always have thought of as a great broodmare sire for Hanover.

          "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.


          • #6
            I'm not an expert by any means, but I like seeing De Niro, Rubinstein, and Rohdiamant as broodmare sires. I have seen a lot of excellent foals out of mares by them.

            *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*


            • #7
              Roman was used quite a bit in Holstein. In fact, Special Event was recently the subject of comment on this bb. He is by Final Pool o/o Silver Lining. Silver Lining's grand dad was Roman. A look at his progeny shows almost all fillies - maybe three sons - as producers.
              A phenomenon that some produce better through their daughters.
              Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


              • #8
                Feiner Stern is said to be a good broodmare sire. I think Hohenstein is, as well, but he does have some notable sons, too. It just seems that his daughters are very good producers and tend to outproduce themselves. (and in the interest of full disclosure I have a Hohenstein mare, but she is currently in foal with her first so time will tell whether she proves my theory or not!).
                Roseknoll Sporthorses


                • #9
                  My interpretation is that a broodmare sire may produce sons who become great athletes or sire approved stallions, but their daughters outperform their sons in the breeding shed.

                  Capitol and Cor de la Bryere are known as "Sire of Sires," because...well, how many approved stallion sons are there between the two of them? On the other hand, Landgraf, Lord, Lavall I, Sacramento Song, Ramiro, Marlon and Corofino come to mind as great broodmare sires. This is not to say some of these sires haven't produced some good sons, but, their daughters have far outproduced their sons. For instance, Lord has some good sons, but he didn't really leave a stallion line... however, he is the dam's sire of a plethora of exceptional athletes....therefore, he is considered a "broodmare sire."
                  CAMPESINO (1990 - 2008)
                  Capitol I - Sacramento Song xx


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Foxtrot's View Post
                    Roman was used quite a bit in Holstein. In fact, Special Event was recently the subject of comment on this bb. He is by Final Pool o/o Silver Lining. Silver Lining's grand dad was Roman. A look at his progeny shows almost all fillies - maybe three sons - as producers.
                    A phenomenon that some produce better through their daughters.

                    Roman is a great example of a broodmare sire. His daughter, Monoline, is mother to Cantus, Calvin Z and Lansing. He is dam's sire to the Holsteiner stallions Carolus I & II, Lamour, Liguster. Roman appears twice as dam's sire in the pedigree of Calido. There are others, but this is a pretty impressive list.
                    CAMPESINO (1990 - 2008)
                    Capitol I - Sacramento Song xx


                    • #11
                      Linaro is another very good broodmare sire.


                      • #12
                        Lungau has a reputation of being an excellent sire of broodmares. He's the damsire of Salinero, Brentina, and Contucci~ at least those come to mind immediately.

                        And I second that Hohenstein daughters tend to outproduce themselves. My Hohenstein mare's first foal is a wonderful riding horse, and I'm eagerly awaiting her next foal!


                        • #13
                          Prince thatch xx too. Did he even sire any liscenced sons?

                          "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.


                          • #14
                            Ramiro Z was a great dam sire, but I believe Calando I was considered the best, with 182 state premium mares (and 18 approved sons) and he went to the Games. Lord Calando has become another very good dam sire (with Calando I being in his background that's no surprise).


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by molliwog View Post
                              Lungau has a reputation of being an excellent sire of broodmares. He's the damsire of Salinero, Brentina, and Contucci~ at least those come to mind immediately.
                              Ditto Lungau
                              Roseknoll Sporthorses


                              • #16
                                Goodtimes, Ahorn, Nimmerdor, Ramiro and Ferro have made super broodmare sires in Holland for sure.

                                Majestic Gaits-Dutch Warmbloods,#1 USEF Dressage Sporthorse Breeder. #1 KWPN-NA Jumpers.Standing Navarone,Schroeder,Dante MG.VDL Frozen.


                                • #17
                                  here is a published list

                                  Leading Dam Sires
                                  2006 2005 Name Studbook 2006 2005
                                  1 (1) Ramiro Z* Holstein 75 78
                                  2 (2) Landgraf I* Holstein 69 68
                                  3 (3) Nimmerdor* KWPN 56 51
                                  4 (6ex) Pilot* Westfalian 55 44
                                  5ex (5) Cor de la Bryère* Selle Français 47 46
                                  5ex (4) Uriel* Selle Français 47 47
                                  7 (6ex) Lord* Holstein 46 44
                                  8 (8) Jalisco B* Selle Français 44 40
                                  9 (11) Weltmeyer Hanoverian 39 35
                                  10 (9ex) Grand Veneur* Selle Français 38 38
                                  11 (9ex) Almé Z* Selle Français 37 38
                                  12 (12) Calypso II Holstein 35 34
                                  13 (14ex) Pik Bube Hanoverian 32 29
                                  14ex (13) Donnerhall* Oldenburg 31 30
                                  14ex (14ex) Laudanum* Selle Français 31 29
                                  16ex (18ex) Calypso I Holstein 28 26
                                  16ex (21) Landadel* Holstein 28 25
                                  16ex (18ex) Voltaire* Hanoverian 28 26
                                  19ex (16ex) Capitol I* Holstein 27 27
                                  19ex (26ex) Contender Holstein 27 22
                                  19ex (18ex) Grannus* Hanoverian 27 26
                                  22ex (16ex) Quastor* Selle Français 26 27
                                  22ex (23ex) Rubinstein* Westfalian 26 23
                                  24 (23ex) Ahorn* KWPN 25 22
                                  25 (22) Night and Day* Selle Français 24 24
                                  26ex (31ex) Furioso II* Selle Français 23 19
                                  26ex nc Goldstern Hanoverian 23 nc
                                  26ex (23ex) Lucky Boy* KWPN 23 23
                                  26ex (30) Matcho AA Anglo Arab 23 20
                                  26ex (29) Muguet du Manoir* Selle Français 23 21
                                  31ex (26ex) Amor Hanoverian 22 22
                                  31ex (26ex) Caletto I Holstein 22 22
                                  33 (31ex) Quidam de Revel Selle Français 20 19
                                  34ex (33ex) Elf III* Selle Français 19 18
                                  34ex (33ex) Wendekreis* Hanoverian 19 18

                                  Col. 1 – 2006 Rank; Col. 2 – 2005 Rank;
                                  * – Deceased (information may not be 100% accurate)
                                  Col. 5 – Number of dam sires approved in WBFSH studbooks in 2006 (out of 6,239 recorded
                                  in BN base).
                                  Col. 6 – Number of dam sires approved in WBFSH studbooks in 2005 (out of 5,714 recorded
                                  in BN base).

                                  What I sort of noticed is that the list contains many of the same stallions also found on Sire of Sires lists.

                                  I swear I formatted this but apparently it didn't work. Sorry!
                                  "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."


                                  • #18
                                    Beach Boy is a famous brood mare sire - one such example is Arko III - is out of a Beach Boy mare.
                                    Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
                                    " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
                                    Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by ponygirl View Post
                                      Leading Dam Sires
                                      What I sort of noticed is that the list contains many of the same stallions also found on Sire of Sires lists.
                                      This is what I expected to see on a warmblood "sire" list. These stallions are sires of both performance horses too.

                                      When I see a label of "Broodmare sire" it seems like it is more meaning, that IS the stallion's "niche".