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Trakehner Breeders-help/opinions wanted!

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  • Trakehner Breeders-help/opinions wanted!

    OK, I'm taking a deep breath and posting this thread...please be gentle!

    I am planning to breed my mare either this coming Spring or next year. She is a 1998 Black Trakehner, 16.3hh and my love! I bought her in 2006 when I lived in Germany and brought her back with me, she's a St Pr St and Verband Pr St and won her 4 year old mare's test over there. She had a Grafenstoltz colt at 6 (not maiden).

    We evented for a couple years and are now doing straight dressage, working on our bronze and schooling 2nd and 3rd level over the winter. We would be significantly farther along if not for a couple of injuries (not work related) over the years which lost me about 2.5 of the last 5 years.

    I would love input on a Trakehner or TB stallion for her. My hope is to breed something to event (hopefully upper level) but Plan B would be dressage.

    Temperment wise, I'm fine with a hot ride, so long as it's not hot and mean She's screw herself into the ceiling hot and I'm ok with that, because she's also the smartest horse I've ever dealt with and has no desire to get me off or hurt me. I want a horse that (like her) is smart and wants to work.

    My biggest priorities conformation wise would be a strong topline, good high neck set (without that dip before the withers) and a naturally balanced way of going uphill. Also, I don't want to breed for anything longer than she is in the back. She is built uphill, but tends to carry her chest lower than she could, so I'd love some help from a stallion in that area. I'm 6 feet tall, so need a baby in the 16.1 plus range...

    OK, thank you for reading so far! Here are links to her pedigree and some conformation shots. If it would help, I have a stallion list I'm considering, I could post that and get pros and cons from people...

    Photos: http://marinessephotos.shutterfly.com/pictures

    Pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/marinesse

    Thank you!!
    Thoroughbred Placement Resources, Inc

  • #2
    Do you want fresh semen from US/Canada?

    One more thing I would add to your list of wants in a stallion is good pastern angles/length as it appears (in those pictures) that she is maybe a bit too sloped in the pasterns. Or is it just the camera angle?

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    • #3

      I guess I have to be the first to say Fleetwater Opposition. Get in line now for what will be limited semen. She is a quality mare. Have fun. PatO




      • #4
        Good luck !


        • #5
          Sea Accounts was approved by the ATA this year.

          He received a 9 for free jumping and an 8 overall. He has competed through Prelim eventing (and only stopped due to circumstances that had nothing to do with his ability to go Advanced) and is currently competing at 4th level dressage. He is the only TB stallion competing at that high of level in the US.

          His oldest kids competing are only 6, so most are just starting their careers, but already he has a Training level winner and others with multiple championships at A hunter shows.

          I'm sure if you contacted Brad Kerbs with ATA or one of the other directors, they could give you their thoughts on him.

          Here are a couple of new conf. pics taken a couple weeks ago:

          Home of Sea Accounts xx
          "LIKE" www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts


          • #6
            If you can get hold of it try Distelzar. Probably the best Trakehner son of Gribaldi.

            Distelzar is used very little yet has stallion quality sons most years. He's a high class GP dressage horse with an excellent jump that he passes on to his offspring.

            His sire Gribaldi is most famous for being the sire of Totilas. But he also sired a beautiful Advanced eventing stallion called Wish Upon A Star who is competing successfully at 3*** level and expected to go 4**** in the future.

            Although not generally thought of as a sire of eventers, Distelzar could tick all your boxes.


            • #7
              May I suggest you Titulus. He will be available for 2012. He had 2 sons in Germany who qualified for the Budenschampionats this year in eventing.
              Les Écuries d'Automne, Québec, Canada
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              • #8
                Another vote for Distelzar...... super stallion!

                I like your mare but would also look for a boy with better front pasterns and probably a little leggier as well.

                Good luck!
                Siegi Belz
                2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.


                • #9
                  Just wanted to say - lovely mare. I worked/rode at a farm in Germany in the 80's that bred TKs and your mare's dam line made me go "soft"... there was a mare there with the same mare line that was our "school master mare" (also named Madame), great great mare.

                  Where are you located? (south east? west coast? north west? etc)
                  Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!


                  • #10
                    Have you seen the Graf baby? Do you like that cross with her?


                    • #11
                      I don't think a Sea Accounts baby will get full (ie breeding stock if that's important) Trakehner papers, Cindy, because the mare is by a TB stallion - but I could be way off base about that (I've been reading registration regulations recently and I'm more confused than when I started).

                      But anyway, my vote is for Tzigane Pb (who is known to shorten backs) and has offspring out there doing it. Fleetwater Opposition, Hannibal, Grafenstolz, Titulus and Windfall are all great choices as they too have offspring out there doing it.

                      However if you want fresh semen, not frozen, then your choices are going to be different. Windfall I think is available fresh (?). Titulus hasn't been available fresh in the past as he is focused on performance (but maybe Spike knows more). Stilletto is another possibility. And although unproven breeding wise, Ballzauber might be worth a look.

                      Good luck!
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                      • Original Poster

                        Thank you for all the replies so far! And for the nice comments on her, I know she is not perfect, but I think there's a lot to like! I agree that her pasterns don't need to be any longer. In real life, they do not look long, but wouldn't benefit from being longer. And of course I would love a leggier baby, I just don't want to hope for too much!

                        I am located in MD, and this is my first planned breeding. I'm a little apprehensive about using frozen, but of course that greatly limits my pool of options! So, I'm not ruling it out if I can get quality frozen...

                        I wish I had seen the Graf son, but I didn't. I do know that they were planning on taking him to the stallion inspection but he wasn't tall enough when it came time to decide. So, I assume he was quality (if a little short).

                        I love Grafenstolz though, got to see him compete in person the year he won the Bundeschampionate for eventing and he is definitely on my list. CNG, I saw your Graf baby on your website-gorgeous! Does anyone know how he improves/affects mares?

                        You have all suggested stallions that are on my list, except for Distelzar (he's on the list now!) Windfall, Tzigane, Fleetwater Opposition, Titulus...

                        I worked at Valhalla last year, so I know those boys personally. Stiletto is obviously fabulous, but I worry a little about his front end topline with my mare...what about Imminence? Or Incantare?

                        Acottongim, I saw your boy at the convention last year, I've liked him for a while too...what is your opinion of him on my mare?

                        A couple others I like...Oskar II (I know he's not eventing, but I LOVE the way he moves through his back, and he's LEGGY!), Tradition, Fandango, Pavarotti...thoughts on any of those?

                        Thank you all, please keep the info coming!
                        Thoroughbred Placement Resources, Inc


                        • #13
                          Aww thanks. I always hesitate to put Tate out there since he is still young. but he has 7 foals on the ground now and they are all very similar to him in conformation and movement. He's grown up a bit since the Jax convention so you should see him now. I have several videos on YouTube (under Emerald acres) of him competing this past year.

                          He's been putting good length of leg and top lines on his babies so far that I've seen.

                          Double check w/Joe but I don't believe he is standing Oskar to the public anymore. And I agree w/you on him. Love love love my Oskars. I've started the filly I had in Jax last year and she is the most trainable horse I've ever sat on. Just awesome.

                          I honestly don't know anything on what Immy throws - I'm sure Erin can tell you (she also has ridden Tate and you can ask her opinion on him). Inky is awesome and really produces rideable athletic kids BUT he does not produce size at all and needs a big mare w/good neck set. He's w/Andrew now btw. (Andrew Palmer has 5 ATA approved stallions he is competing and standing). Not sure Fandango is still available? I have a good friend that has the first 2 Pavi foals and she got everything she wanted w/height etc but hers are a little on the heavy side. Tradition is producing well not positive on height - ask Carol she's awesome and will tell you honestly what he throws etc. but I do like his kids a lot.
                          Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!


                          • #14
                            Since you are in MD, you likely have many good repo vets available to you. Start early and get a breeding soundness exam.

                            Since your mare is coming 14 and has been open for a long time, that's a consideration to discuss with a vet. I have a similar situation in wanting to breed a teenage mare.

                            If I were you, I'd go visit Schiffon in VA and talk with the owners about the possibility of bringing the mare there and breeding across the aisle.


                            • #15
                              Love Distelzar too!


                              • Original Poster

                                I am planning on the breeding soundness exam in Jan or Feb. We are going back down to FL for a couple months (to Cassel Rock Trakehners, next door to Valhalla!) to hide from the cold So I'm going to talk a lot to Jean, Erin, Kari and John while I'm there before I do anything.

                                I have ridden several of Inky's kids and loved them, I'm just not sure about the neck set concern with him. Immy only has the 2 (I think) yearlings on the ground, they were adorable foals and lovely, but that makes me want to wait and see with him...this is so hard! I don't know how you all do it!

                                I'll have to ask about Oskar...does the idea of breeding for an eventer with him sound crazy?
                                Thoroughbred Placement Resources, Inc


                                • #17
                                  Well, you will have a panel of experts to give you input.

                                  Good luck.


                                  • #18
                                    Oskar - not at all, sent you a PM, but will say it here too - if Joe will let you breed to him DO IT! You won't be disappointed! He scored a 10 on the jump portion for both the ATA and ISR, I am really impressed with the 3 that I have. I think he has one kid out there eventing now... Don't think it is crazy at all.
                                    Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!


                                    • #19
                                      Oh i like Oskar He is stunning! I used to have a "cousin" of his lol. Pomeranets ox grandson, that I adored. Windfall is very nice too.
                                      "Sadly, some people's greatest skill, is being an idiot". (facebook profile pic I saw).


                                      • #20
                                        My Oskar mare has the best topline you could hope for and is leggy. She is also sensible, elastic and really light on her feet and coordinated. She can have a bit of an opinion, but so does her dam, a diva! Oskar was a jumper before dressage horse, so the jump is certainly there. I would sure love to breed back to him! It's too bad he didn't have more years at stud.