• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Quidam's clone will be breeding in 2012

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Quidam's clone will be breeding in 2012

    (read in "World of Show Jumping")
    Quidam's clone will be standing in Belgium at staal de Muze (Joris de Brabander) under the name of Quidam de Revel II Z.
    He will be standing next to Quidam son and grandson: Nabab de Reve and Vigo d'Arsouilles.
    "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, And treat those two imposters just the same"
    Rudyard Kipling
    Quartz Rouge

  • #2
    Any idea of what his fee will be, Andy? Ought to be interesting to see how many breeders use him....especially as Zangersheide "will" recognize and register offspring by a clone.
    Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
    Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

    Comment


    • #3
      There is no price on the De Brabander website for 'Quidam II',but I have seen that the clone of ET,available in France, is priced at 450euro per dose!

      Comment


      • #4
        I think the name should be followed by CC-Carbon Copy

        Ie: Quidam De Revel CC

        lol

        Saying Quidam II is confusing and makes one think he is just a full brother. Holstein designates full brothers in this way.

        Just saying...

        Tim
        Last edited by RyTimMick; Dec. 21, 2011, 11:23 AM.
        Sparling Rock Holsteiners https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/c...milies/yes.gif
        www.sparlingrock.com

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          kathy, the price is not yet published.
          Tim, the complete name is: Quidam de Revel II Z (CL)
          CL for clone.
          "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, And treat those two imposters just the same"
          Rudyard Kipling
          Quartz Rouge

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RyTimMick View Post
            I think the name should be followed by CC-Carbon Copy
            <ROTFL>....does anyone use carbon for carbon copies anymore? It's obsolete, Tim. It would have to be just plain copy, wouldn't it?

            Saying Quidam II is confusing and makes one think he is just a full brother.
            But...but...but...he IS a full brother! I'm sure all the identical twins in the world would be indignant if someone said they weren't brothers (or sisters) !

            Just sayin' <LOL>...Sorry...couldn't resist!
            Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
            Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
              <ROTFL>....does anyone use carbon for carbon copies anymore? It's obsolete, Tim. It would have to be just plain copy, wouldn't it?



              But...but...but...he IS a full brother! I'm sure all the identical twins in the world would be indignant if someone said they weren't brothers (or sisters) !

              Just sayin' <LOL>...Sorry...couldn't resist!

              he is not a twin...a twin came from the fertilized egg from the mother and father. The clone is not from the mother and father , he is from Quidam de Revel.

              The clone only has the same genetic makeup , he is not identical.

              I wouldn't call him a full brother either. He is a clone......hence the name. The clone is made by Quidam.....not the parents of Quidam , therefore i will never look at the clone as a full brother.

              Comment


              • #8
                I thought there was a thread somewhere that had stated the clone had died..

                Apparently NOT.

                What website is he listed on?
                Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
                " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
                Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bayhawk View Post
                  he is not a twin...a twin came from the fertilized egg from the mother and father. The clone is not from the mother and father , he is from Quidam de Revel.

                  The clone only has the same genetic makeup , he is not identical.

                  I wouldn't call him a full brother either. He is a clone......hence the name. The clone is made by Quidam.....not the parents of Quidam , therefore i will never look at the clone as a full brother.
                  <sigh>...It was a JOKE!!! And FWIW, many consider a clone a twin separated by time.

                  "Identical" twins are not identical, either. Human twins have a few variations, including fingerprints (how's that for a piece of useless trivia?) Semantics. But it's a matter of splitting hairs...or cells as it were <LOL>. <shrug> It will be interesting to see if the boy gets some breedings.
                  Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
                  Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    really will be interesting to see if he gets breedings. I thought it was fairly clear that no offspring of clones are permitted to show in FEI regulated shows. Or are people going to hedge their bets and do it anyway hoping the air will clear on that issue?

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      This is based on very old scientific data; about 10 y/o.
                      There has been huge advances since this time.
                      "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, And treat those two imposters just the same"
                      Rudyard Kipling
                      Quartz Rouge

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Fact of the matter is, the clones are still weaker, die early and there are still significant problems with the clones.
                        Practice! Patience! Persistence!
                        http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/
                        https://www.facebook.com/MariposaSportHorses/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've thought this since inception. There is no way a clone can receive the same material that a fertilized egg can.

                          I am another that doesn't want clones anywhere near my breeding.

                          There is something to be said for the mother raising her own foal also. This is one reason why embryo transfer hasn't produced many top horses.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            no clones for me either!
                            Gwendolyn
                            http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
                            Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by andy.smaga View Post
                              (read in "World of Show Jumping")
                              Quidam's clone will be standing in Belgium at staal de Muze (Joris de Brabander) under the name of Quidam de Revel II Z.
                              He will be standing next to Quidam son and grandson: Nabab de Reve and Vigo d'Arsouilles.
                              'Alongside' may not mean 'available' to North American breeders. I was interested in using NdR, but have been disappointed.
                              Inner Bay Equestrian
                              Facebook
                              KERx

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Human twins have a few variations, including fingerprints (how's that for a piece of useless trivia?)

                                See Kathy, that is no problem for humans but you just exposed a huge problem for cloned horses who may have a different hoof print No hoof, no horse.

                                No I do not like cloning and even though it is an interesting study, improving something faulty that we can not control because we do not know what faulty DNA/RNA etc is being introduced is still faulty. Introducing this into the pool of natural born beings is risky. IMHO keep them separate as they are definitely not the same (yet?) too many factors are uncontrolled in these subjects.

                                I find new and improved "real" horses much more interesting and we have many of those every year...
                                www.immunallusa.com
                                www.rainbowequus.com Home of stallions that actually produced champion hunter, jumper and dressage offspring and now also champion eventers

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Sorry, I can't remember how to post links. If you go to Eurodressage you can find the article by Tom Reed, "Pink Flamingos and Pink Horses, The Cloning Crux" from 9/9/11 that has the FEI position on clones in it..

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    http://www.morningside-stud.com/PinkHorses.html
                                    Morningside Stud
                                    http://www.morningside-stud.com
                                    http://twitter.com/MorningsideStud
                                    http://www.facebook.com/MorningsideStud

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Thanks Tom! Great article.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        You're very welcome.
                                        Morningside Stud
                                        http://www.morningside-stud.com
                                        http://twitter.com/MorningsideStud
                                        http://www.facebook.com/MorningsideStud

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X