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Cremello or Perlino?????

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  • #41
    Ah ..El Dorado is AA but not EE.. but still , good to see some AA dds around!


    • #42
      Yes its is our perlino is AA and know of a lovely cremello AA warmblood stallion on the market that has also been tested AA too... testing a filly at the moment and fingers crossed she tests for both, I will just have to be patient


      • #43
        Red Fox Farm had RFF Starbuck, who is EE AA CRCR. But he is a Quarter Horse.



        • #44
          Originally posted by Blonde Filly
          I hope you are right...I WANT him to be cremello, but he is a much richer color than I've ever had before..so maybe just a different shade of cremello? I sure hope so!!! His tail is very white and so is the mane.
          I know you're a color breeder, but why do you want the foal to be any particular color?

          Edited to add: I re-read the entire thread and saw where you answered this already. I should have known it was all about color and nothing in regards to breeding a performance horse.


          • #45
            Originally posted by Blonde Filly
            FaithcremelloWB/April I believe everyone can see right through this post for what it's hidden agenda is, being you also breed colored TBs.
            Wow. You really are paranoid, aren't you? I think the inbreeding is absolutely irresponsible breeding on your part. As long as I have "known" you on this BB, you have cared nothing for breeding a performance horse and only cared about what color the foal will be. Your reaction to this concern is laughable as well as pathetic.


            • #46
              Yo pacificsolo

              didn't she just win best foal at upperville, 2 years running- that's no small feat! and so what if she is breeding for color- you can see her horses are beautiful and correct, color is the icing. nice beginning, love and care, lots of room to romp. lighten up- no pun intended.


              • #47
                The foal has blue eyes but also has significant facial white from what I can tell. Significant facial white can cause blue eyes even if the white doesn't touch the eye. Granted, it probably is a double dilute but you can't be sure until the foal is DNA tested.

                That's a very cute baby, BTW.
                Altamont Sport Horses
                Trakehners * Knabstruppers * Appaloosa Sport Horses
                Home of stallions: Ambrosius af Asgard "Atlantis" & Hollywood Hot Spot
                Birmingham, AL


                • #48
                  Originally posted by workinggirl
                  didn't she just win best foal at upperville, 2 years running- that's no small feat!
                  Oh, won a class out of two. Now THAT'S an achievement.

                  If her horses are so correct, perhaps she can quit with the photoshop and show them trotting on level ground.


                  • #49
                    are you sure

                    just 2


                    • Original Poster

                      Originally posted by Albion
                      Oh, won a class out of two. Now THAT'S an achievement.

                      If her horses are so correct, perhaps she can quit with the photoshop and show them trotting on level ground.
                      Yes there were only 2 this year, but I can't help how many were in the class, but of course Ms. Negative does not mention that in 2007 there were 8 in the class and not 2 like this year!!! Two years in a row, two different judges, two different handlers, two different mares the foals were out of and by two different stallion of whom were home breds of mine 2nd and 3rd generation!!! Yes I am proud. My horses could win the Olympics and you will have the crowd that will put it down due to color and I don't bred for just color anyone with an eye can see that.
                      Attached Files
                      Zillionair Cremello JC Thoroughbred & Pure White Gold All White Palomino Dual Thoroughbred & APHA
                      Live Streaming Foaling Cam


                      • Original Poster

                        Originally posted by workinggirl
                        didn't she just win best foal at upperville, 2 years running- that's no small feat! and so what if she is breeding for color- you can see her horses are beautiful and correct, color is the icing. nice beginning, love and care, lots of room to romp. lighten up- no pun intended.
                        You are correct and thank you!!!
                        Zillionair Cremello JC Thoroughbred & Pure White Gold All White Palomino Dual Thoroughbred & APHA
                        Live Streaming Foaling Cam


                        • #52
                          Nice to see the in-hand show records but what of performance???????? How well are those dilutes doing where it counts? April, I see you get your guys out there and that is why I choose to breed to your stallions, I want a performance record not a "where's the beef" record. And this is from someone who loves a pretty buckskin or palomino, I just want them capable of competeing and not just standing there looking purty.


                          • #53
                            Why did Norsire change her screen name?

                            Why are Norsires pictures on her website all tilted?

                            Why do none of Norsire's stallions have any kind of performance record?


                            • #54
                              This has actually made me curious. Which dilute TB stallions have a performance record? And which ones have produced offspring that have shown undersaddle not just on the line?
                              Standing the colored Thoroughbred stallions Regal Regalia, chestnut frame overo, and White Magic, cremello


                              • #55
                                Thanks LJS. I do wonder how a breeder can say breeding sport horses; yet none are broke to ride or shown any length of time to show saneness/ soundness etc...

                                Many of the dilute TB stallions kids are just getting old enough to be showing under saddle now. If a stallion starts to breed at 3 (about as early as one can), his first foals are born when he is 4. When he is 5 they are 1, when he is 6 they are 2, when he is 7 they are 3 (maybe being started) when he is 8 they are 4 and should be at least broke and doing some hacks, some people jump 4 year olds. So when a stallion is 9 and his first possible kids are 5 they could actually showing/jumping. There are a few older stallions but not many and most of their kids went straight into the breeding shed. The one stallion we have El Dorado has a few four year olds showing. I just got news a month or so ago that one was reserve champion open hunter. That is another problem... keeping in touch with all previous buyers and breeders.

                                I do not know how many of the kids will actually show as many of the sires do not show nor do the dams. Then one asks how long should a stallion compete for? Is a year enough? Or should he keeping going for several years, how many? I do try to train and show all my stallions (WB's & TB's). I have one who I got when he was older and not more than hacking broke so he never made it to the show world. Then at what level should the stallion show? I did the international circuit with my two older boys (WB's) for a couple year and that was very very expensive. But now that they have much more than basic training and lots of show experience I am showing them myself in and adult amateur divisions and take weekly lessons on them. This way I can afford to have more than one or two showing. But is that enough? Mare owners like to see stallions go up to the high levels; but that is very costly if the owner does not have the balls to do those levels. I am not comfortable jumping over 3'6" at this point and my guys have shown at 4'.0"-4'3" as 7 year olds. So now I am taking up dressage as well with them.

                                Back to the question about kids and under saddle... I hope to see more in the next year or two. I know I have kept some of my kids just for that reason. Because I want them to have show careers and if they are in my barn I can make sure of it. I have no intension's on breeding any of the kids at this point. And I have 3 and 4 year old coloured fillies that will not be having babies... Once I have them going and showing; I will sell them to show homes, but I knew if I sold them all as kids many would be bought up by breeders and likely not make it to the show world.

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                                • #56
                                  Thanks for asking a very pertinent question Freedom Sporthorses ...

                                  My cremello TB stallion - Guaranteed Gold - IS broke to ride, competed in Training Level eventing as a 4 year old, and finished 5th in the Championshps that season. Based on his conformation, movement and performance results he was awarded Bronze Premium status with the CSHA (Canadian Sport Horse Association)

                                  I am also hoping to get him to the RPSI inspection this year or next and will also see if I can get him AWR accredited as well ...

                                  I wish that I had owned him at the time - he would make the ultimate hunter (he really moves and jumps and performs more as a hunter type than an event type, IMO ...) but that wasnt my decision to make at the time and now, I am choosing to prove him as a performance stallion through his offspring with the performance credentials that he already has.

                                  In the beginning, he was not bred to a lot of mares, so his oldest offspring are 5 year olds this year and there are not many at all. Several have competed very successfuly in breed shows (Anglo Arabians) in dressage competitions, he has a 4 year old that competed successfully at the Training Level in eventing last year and I believe is moving up a division this year. His 2007 daughter - Guaranteed Galoubet was purchased by a client of Frank Madden's and the intention is to do Hunter Breeding, then Hunter with her until the ultimate goal which is to show her in the Jumper ring.

                                  His 2004 daughter Faux Finish, and one of my homebreds, finished 2nd in the nation in the USEF Hunter Breeding standings as a 3 year old in 2007, and in her first show under saddle in November, won both of her classes and was Reserve Champion at that show

                                  My intention with Faux Finish was to compete her in the Novice Hunter division this year with her trainer Jill Johnson, but due to a whack of costs associated with building our new barn / farm, we have curtailed her showing this year and are picking and choosing her shows rather than hitting every single one as was my original intention. Hopefully we will be back on track for 2009 and she will do the Pre Greens and then the Green Conformation divisions ...

                                  I wish that I did have the funds to get Guaranteed Gold back under saddle and showing but the reality is that I dont and I am choosing to now prove him in the future through his sons and daughters results instead ...

                                  Several other offspring are going the Hunter Breeding route over the next few years (as he has a lot of yearling, Two and Three Year olds out there now) and one colt - Remember My Name - will go through the WB approvals here or in Europe and then I hope that Guaranteed Gold will have an approved son competing and standing in Europe as well.

                                  Another son (a 2 year old) was sold to a race trainer and is currently in training in PA and I hope will make his racing debut later on in the year as well!

                                  I, too feel it is very important (critical actually) to have a SPORTHORSE breeding program centered around stallions that have been broke, have been ridden, have been shown and have been measured against set criteria that accredited registries have to offer. How else can you assess their strengths and their weaknesses??? And how can you ascertain if "he is a great mover with terrific conformation" if you dont have independant, unbiased opinions from industry professionals to back those assertions up???

                                  Gwen Gregorio has opted to put her Alchemist stallion through the tough European WB approvals as well. Kudos to her - she is backing that stallion 100% and breeders will be able to know 100% what they are getting with that stallion - performance wise, HEIGHT wise (as he would have been measured on a concrete base by an unbiased professional), etc

                                  And I swore I wasnt going to touch any of the other comments on this thread but here goes ...

                                  I am sick to death of hearing this crap, ad nauseum from Norsire about Glitter-Please-and-his-club-feet-and his-offspring-having-club-feet-as-well.

                                  Bridget - get over it already. Your stupid allegations have been refuted by everyone and also by Gigi Nutter (Glitter Please's owner) who came on this board a year or so ago to set the record straight as well. How many GP offspring have you owned?

                                  Try "0"

                                  How many have I owned?


                                  None of them had club feet and I am flabbergasted that not only do you continue to bring this subject up -


                                  Bridget - if you ever hope to have credibility as a breeder, start by putting PERFORMANCE records on your stallions (and maybe start by even getting them BROKE), start telling people realistic heights your foals should finish off at, and dont breed your mares to their sires full brothers hoping for a perlino first and foremost, and damn the resultant genetic issues - internal and external - that may well result from your actions. I pity the poor person that ends up with this colt - I truly do ...

                                  And there is no excuse, IMO, by saying that "Dog breeders and Arabian breeders do it all the time"

                                  Years ago when I boarded at a place that bred Egyptian Arabians, there was another boarder that bred mothers to sons and fathers. Why? Because they were trying to solidify that coveted black gene in the Arabians

                                  EVERY SINGLE FOAL CAME OUT WITH CLUB FEET and every single foal went for club foot surgery .

                                  One little colt in particular that was irresponsibly inbred as well, was a sickly colt right from the get go and when he did finally die at 5 or 6 months of age and they did an autopsy on him, he had so many internal issues he never had a chance and for the record - they DID put it down to the inbreeding that his owners believed in


                                  My 2 cents worth over and done with ... and BTW - your colt is a cremello as you well knew it was
                                  Last edited by Moderator 1; Jun. 23, 2008, 10:42 AM. Reason: personal commentary

                                  True Colours Farm on Facebook


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Faiths CremelloWB

                                    vxf111;snarkiness is not good for anyones business. I was sincerely wondering why Norsire chose to do this cross as I just do not get it and don't agree with it. I do like some of her horses. This is not a plot against her or her breeding... Simply this cross had be baffled.
                                    With all due respect, then, if your intent was not to try to publicly embarrass or disparage a fellow breeder, your curiosity may have been satisfied by a polite PM to the OP asking your question. Since the OP has a website and provides information on her horses' bloodlines, anyone can see the pedigree of her horses and make their own determinations about that, and to the extent there is a concern, can likewise ask the OP directly. Or, another approach is to start a separate thread -- "How close is too close" and ask generally whether people think breeding closer than 3rd gen to 3rd gen is good or bad or whatnot.

                                    Bashing other breeders is unprofessional and reflects poorly on the person doing the bashing. It is a major turnoff to potential clients. So those that are bashing, you might consider that. *All* those that are bashing.
                                    Roseknoll Sporthorses


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by summerhorse
                                      There's nothing wrong with inbreeding but you'd want to cross this foal out to another line.

                                      Someone said if it works it is linebreeding, if it doesn't it's inbreeding!

                                      Inbreeding concentrates genes, good or bad. It is another tool to use. You just don't want to KEEP on inbreeding, you have to know when to outcross too.
                                      Can't you just hear the banjoes.... how stupid....


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by grayarabpony
                                        Can't you just hear the banjoes....
                                        okay, that was funny
                                        Roseknoll Sporthorses


                                        • #60
                                          YankeeLawyer; Contacting Norsire privately does not work. I will PM you rather than air the laundry here.

                                          Well said TC.

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