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Buying Babies

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  • #21
    I hate to be the contrarian on this BB full of breeders wanting to sell their wares, but my advice to RIDERS is to NOT buy a youngster, unless you are emotionally and financially prepared to keep a pasture ornament for life should something go wrong somewhere along the way. Yes, you may get lucky and end up with the horse of your dreams, but if you are unlucky, you could end up with the horse of your nightmares.
    Last edited by DownYonder; Nov. 28, 2011, 03:05 PM. Reason: typo

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    • #22
      Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
      I hate to be the contrarian on this BB full of breeders wanting to sell their wares, but my advice to RIDERS is to NOT buy a youngster, unless you are emotionally and financially prepared to keep a pasture ornament for life should something go wrong somwhere along the way. Yes, you may get lucky and end up with the horse of your dreams, but if you are unlucky, you will end up with the horse of your nightmares.
      This seems an excessively negative opinon on buying babies. THe fact of the matter is that buying a baby or an adult,
      there are no guarantees in horses. While it is true you may end up with a pasture ornament - you may also end up with a true gem - at a discount price, which is for sure not gonna happen with an adult.

      I normally buy nothing older than two - and mostly weanlings. I have done very well, never been burned and been very happy with the end product. I end up with horses that are way better horses than what I could afford if I were paying for made horses.

      The only problems I have had in 30 years are with adult horses. One who left the sellers farm a 10 mover and arrived at my barn unridable, with a broken halter and a sore back from flipping herself over in the truck.

      The one with the provenshow record who lost it in the cross ties with the farrier - they didn't mention she did not tie. The list goes on.

      If you research bloodlines - buy a baby from a breeder that knows what they are doing, and most certainly one whose mother is at least as sane and rideable as the sire, with a basic health check you will probablly be fine.

      I don't xray babies - but I also don't buy from breeders who are not concerned about OCD - and who don't have good rearing practices - ie lots of turn out. Many good breeders xray their breeding stock - most registries require stallions to be xrayed.

      Buy a baby - assume they know nothing, teach them your way, take your time and enjoy!!!

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      • #23
        Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
        I hate to be the contrarian on this BB full of breeders wanting to sell their wares, but my advice to RIDERS is to NOT buy a youngster, unless you are emotionally and financially prepared to keep a pasture ornament for life should something go wrong somewhere along the way. Yes, you may get lucky and end up with the horse of your dreams, but if you are unlucky, you could end up with the horse of your nightmares.
        Originally posted by BC5098 View Post
        This seems an excessively negative opinon on buying babies. THe fact of the matter is that buying a baby or an adult,
        there are no guarantees in horses. While it is true you may end up with a pasture ornament - you may also end up with a true gem - at a discount price, which is for sure not gonna happen with an adult.
        See, I don't think it was excessively negative, but rather good advice when buying a horse of any age.

        I may be buying a baby next year, and it will be exactly with the mindset that if things don't work out I may have a couple decades of supporting a pasture ornament. It seems to me it's irresponsible not to expect otherwise when buying a horse of any age. Heck, I *hope* to have years of supporting them as pasture ornaments, after retirement, because I hope they live well past retirement healthy and sound enough to hang out without any kind of suffering. But that's why we're on horse property - to ensure somewhere to retire the horses to, rather than have to make some uncomfortable decisions down the line.
        Originally posted by Silverbridge
        If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

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        • #24
          I have ridden too many lovely grown horses to think they are not out there to be had. But for myself I will probably always buy a baby and raise it. I like truly knowing who they are. I also buy with the clear understanding that if they turn out to NOT be what I want, I will sell or rehome them.

          I did buy LMEqT's large pony prospect as a weanling this year. Crazy, probably. But he is exactly what I wanted, and the idea of putting her on large ponies to try leaves me cold... Because as we know, people often omit important facts when selling ponies.. Like, he bolts. No thanks. I will make one up instead, at least there will be no surprises!
          "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
          ---
          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

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          • #25
            While it is true you may end up with a pasture ornament - you may also end up with a true gem - at a discount price, which is for sure not gonna happen with an adult.
            LOL, with a grown horse, you have a much better chance of knowing what you are getting. There are just a heck of a lot more variables with a young horse...

            If you research bloodlines - buy a baby from a breeder that knows what they are doing, and most certainly one whose mother is at least as sane and rideable as the sire, with a basic health check you will probablly be fine.
            Yep, been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Super bloodlines, famous sire, SPS dam, famous damsire, solid bottom line of the pedigree. Very good breeder, excellent care by highly respected foal raisers, early backing/training by very highly respected folks.
            Sometimes you can do everything right, but s*** still happens - even to horses with Class I radiographs.

            I agree you can get a super horse for a great price by buying as a foal or young horse, but you also have to be prepared to accept the fact that "something" may happen as the horse develops.

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            • #26
              If you are doing this as a once in a lifetime experience, then I would expect you are planning to get insurance or knowingly take the risk of being uninsured.

              Since you know what you want to do with the foal, I strongly advise that you find a baby with full siblings that are doing what you are aiming for. If there are no full siblings, then at the least make sure the mare has produced multiple 1/2 siblings that you would be happy with and that the sire of your foal is known to be an ammy-friendly hunter producer.

              With the right prep and knowledge, I say GO FOR IT!

              To all the naysayers, yes, I am a breeder and no, I don't think I have any hunter foals to sell her- I'm a dressage rider and know nothing of how to spot a great jump in a horse.
              www.trinitysporthorses.com

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              • #27
                Originally posted by TrinitySporthorses View Post
                If you are doing this as a once in a lifetime experience, then I would expect you are planning to get insurance or knowingly take the risk of being uninsured.
                Agree, although Loss of Use insurance is very difficult to get for foals, weanlings, etc.

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                • #28
                  This seems an excessively negative opinon on buying babies. THe fact of the matter is that buying a baby or an adult,
                  there are no guarantees in horses. While it is true you may end up with a pasture ornament - you may also end up with a true gem - at a discount price, which is for sure not gonna happen with an adult.
                  As a rider not a breeder, this was my experience. I got my foal for incredibly cheap (granted paying board for 2.5 yrs waiting for her to grow up was easily $10k), but I had a blast raising her and she is sound, healthy, sane and a phenomenal riding horse.

                  If you are concerned about a horse becoming permanently lame, buy a nice filly with good bloodlines. At least she is still worth something should she sustain a career ending injury.

                  To be honest, babies are suicidal and will make your heart stop once a week with their crazy antics...but i think you are more likely to buy an adult horse with undisclosed mental/physical problems than you are to have your baby sustain a career ending injury.

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                  • #29
                    LOL, with a grown horse, you have a much better chance of knowing what you are getting. There are just a heck of a lot more variables with a young horse...
                    I disagree. Buying an adult horse is like buying a used car. You can get xrays and things, but you can't catch every injury with x-rays. You also can't catch training issues and mental problems/former abuse with an x-ray.

                    I want to know my horse's entire history both mental and physical. I have very little faith in humans

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by luvmydutch View Post
                      If you are concerned about a horse becoming permanently lame, buy a nice filly with good bloodlines. At least she is still worth something should she sustain a career ending injury.
                      Are you kidding me?! I swear to God if I hear this one more time I think I'll tear the last bit of my hair out.

                      There are many reasons horses can go lame or become unsuitable for riding that also should quite possibly give someone a reason to NOT turn the horse into a breeding animal. I would say the "well I can't ride her so I'll just breed her" mentality is a HUGE reason US breeders get such a bad rap!
                      On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

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                      • #31
                        Well if she's out of an SPS mare and by Sandro Hit, and fell in her pasture or smashed into a fence or did any of the things people worry about babies doing...there is nothing wrong with breeding that animal. Get off your high horse. I'm a vegetarian, a biologist, and a teacher...not an irresponsible "pony mill" proponent.

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by luvmydutch View Post
                          Well if she's out of an SPS mare and by Sandro Hit, and fell in her pasture or smashed into a fence or did any of the things people worry about babies doing...there is nothing wrong with breeding that animal. Get off your high horse. I'm a vegetarian, a biologist, and a teacher...not an irresponsible "pony mill" proponent.
                          And what if this same mare was started at 3 and went lame because of multiple OCD lesions that were inoperable, or she was still lame after surgery? Broodmare?
                          On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

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                          • #33
                            well i think it's pretty obvious that that mare wouldn't be a candidate for breeding. I'm not an irresponsible moron "perfectpony".

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                            • #34
                              I don't know where you are hearing of all these suicidal babies, but I sure don't hear of it any more often than I do with older horses. The key is to have the proper setup for having a youngster (lots of turnout, a good babysitter, good fencing) AND someone who understands the raising of young horses. You CANNOT just start treating them like an older horse, and you CANNOT treat them like a pet. And you need a second person for much of the early training. If you have the knowledge and feel to do it yourself, great. But if not, find someone who HAS this knowledge and send your baby there to get a good start, good manners, even if only for 6 months or so, and then bring it home and continue the program the baby has learned.

                              It isn't rocket science, but I have seen far more ruined, spoiled brats then I have EVER seen injured beyond repair.
                              Laurie

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by lauriep View Post
                                I don't know where you are hearing of all these suicidal babies, but I sure don't hear of it any more often than I do with older horses. The key is to have the proper setup for having a youngster (lots of turnout, a good babysitter, good fencing) AND someone who understands the raising of young horses. You CANNOT just start treating them like an older horse, and you CANNOT treat them like a pet. And you need a second person for much of the early training. If you have the knowledge and feel to do it yourself, great. But if not, find someone who HAS this knowledge and send your baby there to get a good start, good manners, even if only for 6 months or so, and then bring it home and continue the program the baby has learned.

                                It isn't rocket science, but I have seen far more ruined, spoiled brats then I have EVER seen injured beyond repair.
                                Yup. And from what i've seen, some horses are just accident-prone - and many do NOT "grow out of it". Plenty of older horses get themselves hurt all the time, while others rarely get so much as a scratch. Same with babies. I had *one* accident-prone filly, and all my other youngsters (i've bred a couple more since and bought a couple as yearlings) who would get the odd minor booboo, just like older horses, and that's it.

                                My young gelding (3.5 yrs) is, and has been since Day 1, a very low-maintenance dude. He is respectful of (good!) fencing, he is careful and sensible, and i've had to do nothing more than doctor a few cuts/scrapes over the past 3 years (yes, knocking on wood right now).

                                After boarding at many different barns over the years, i've seen mature geldings play just as much and often harder than your average youngster. Tis precisely why i wanted my gelding turned out with mares this winter.
                                www.jlsporthorsesales.net

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by luvmydutch View Post
                                  well i think it's pretty obvious that that mare wouldn't be a candidate for breeding. I'm not an irresponsible moron "perfectpony".
                                  I am not calling you one, I am calling you out on what you are recommending blindly to others. You are IMO perpetuating a dangerous idea that many people take literally. Anyone that doesn't admit that it is a problem is fooling themselves.

                                  What you may see as "obvious" may be anything but to others less educated than yourself.
                                  On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

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                                  • #37
                                    Well perfectpony, I have inferred from the original poster's good grammar and well thought out posts and ideas that she is not, in fact, a complete moron trying to breed slaughter house horses. She seems like someone thoughtful and intelligent enough to see the OBVIOUS reality that a mare with horrible OCD and/or genetic defects isn't a breeding candidate. I will, however, point out that many big-name stallions have known OCD and continue to breed (Bretton Woods for example), and there a definitive genetic link to the disease has yet to be found. I am also aware that some recent studies have been released indicating a genetic component to be likely, in conjunction with environmental factors.

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                                    • #38
                                      We are ALL kidding ourselves if we think we don't take an enormous risk anytime we buy ANY horse of any age!

                                      Right now, I have a pasture pet I imported as a 5 year old who competed through prelim and schooled OI before permanently breaking, and a weanling filly who got stepped on at birth and will be a pasture ornament. I have friends who imported top horses, did extensive work-ups, and then the horse broke the next day. I have a friend whose horse retired sound after competing Advanced with a club foot. If you look at the conformation of top eventers, some you think they are just gorgeous and others you think HOW THE HELL did that horse ever stay sound!! They are HORSES. As my husband says, it is amazing they survived evolution (of course the small horses that survived evolution looked nothing like our tall willowy competition horses).

                                      That said, I agree with several other posters that I like raising and starting my own horses and then sending them to Sharon White who I know will do a phenomenal job of taking them up the levels. I have fixed enough of other people's mistakes. I like to make my own.
                                      www.witsendeventing.com
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                                      • #39
                                        I am sorry luvmydutch, but you are not having a private conversation with the OP, you are posting your thoughts on an internet forum where thousands of random people searching for information about buying a baby horse may end up. Making offhand comments like that is how the idea gets into people's head that they can "just breed her" if she doesn't work out. You may be well meaning and well educated, as may be the OP, but someone else reading your comment might not be.

                                        I am as guilty as anyone making the same mistake at times, it's not personal. I just think it's a dangerous idea to just throw out there.
                                        On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

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                                        • #40
                                          I'm sorry perfect pony you win. I'm not as perfect as you. I have a dying animal at home who is being put to sleep tomorrow and I didn't consider every possible scenario of stupidity in the realm of human existence before I made a perfectly relevant comment. Would you like a medal or a chest to pin it on? Jeez.

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