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Warmblood Breeders/Sellers remember Sneakers?

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  • Warmblood Breeders/Sellers remember Sneakers?

    Update: I've found the Practical Horseman that she is in, here are photos...

    Ok, I have a mare that I got some years back and I've looked and looked for information regarding her past. We thought she was barren, but she took and now we'd like to register the baby. This is kind of a last ditch effort to see if anyone remembers her.

    Her name is Sneakers, she's a chestnut hanoverian mare with chrome about 13 years old. very typey face. She was a hunter/jumper and stands 16.2 hh. She was featured in Practical Horseman in 1997 as a 3 year old doing a demonstration with Holly Hugo Vidal at a barn in South Carolina.

    We've followed the trail back to California where someone remembered her being started at Ron Kennedy's farm. A woman who gave lessons there owned her and then moved with her to South Carolina. She was branded into the pre-stud book (probably shown with dam at her side and dam made it into main book - foal automatically branded pre-stud)

    Does she sound familiar to anyone? Sneakers is the only name I've ever heard her called by, I've owned her for 7 years now.

    Last edited by Reddfox; Jun. 24, 2008, 07:21 PM. Reason: update info...

  • #2
    Originally posted by Reddfox View Post
    She was branded into the pre-stud book (probably shown with dam at her side and dam made it into main book - foal automatically branded pre-stud)
    Foals are not automatically branded in a book lower than their dam, so if she was branded pre-studbook, that's what the dam was approved for at that point, otherwise she would have a regular H-US brand. It is possible the dam moved up to the Studbook if she scored high enough on her Mare Performance Test, but she would not have been able to jump up to the Main Studbook level (the highest book) at that point in time. The rules have recently been revised, particularly regarding Thoroughbred mares which comprise a large part of the Pre-Studbook. I'm not sure if the AHS office can help you with the sketchy information you have, but try emailing them at ahsoffice@aol.com or call 859-255-4141.
    "If a horse has a "warm" back—loose, supple and oscillating—he can lift the rider...on a "cold" back—low and stiff—the rider achieves nothing other than growing old sitting on it." —Charles de Kunffy


    • Original Poster

      Thank you for the information about the brands. I had never seen Sneaker's brand before and when I finally ran into someone that had a mare with the same brand, that's what I was told.

      I have contacted the AHS asking about DNA, but without knowing sire or dam, I can't run a DNA test. Maybe I can ask if there are records based on year accepted and location available to public.

      I know it's a needle in the haystack, she's super nice so it's worth a try to see if anyone might remember her. I have a feeling that the dam is TB or possibly Anglo, she's got such a refined face. But her bone structure is quite large.


      • #4
        She strongly, strongly, reminds me of Adios III. But he was in KY at that time....and you think she's from CA?

        I do think she was by an A-line stallion. Andric was standing in CA. He's still alive, and still has the same owner. It's worth a phone call. Yes, semen was being shipped in '94...but it was more common to stick to your time zone.

        THere were next to no anglos in the marebooks back then, if any, and maybe only one or two arabs. I know her face is VERY typey....which makes me think she was out of a TB, and by an A-line. The color and the crome also support that theory.

        Oh yes...LOVELY mare!
        "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin


        • Original Poster

          Thank you, thank you for the tip towards Andric, I'll look into that. She was definitely born in 93 or 94 so that knowledge about shipping semen those years will help. I had no idea how far semen was shipped, if it was shipped.

          You are right, she looks A LOT like Adios III. I wonder....

          I don't know that she was born in CA, but I do know that she was there at a very, very young age and was started at Ron Kennedy's farm. I've called and emailed, but was unable to get a hold of anyone there. The person that remembers her from there doesn't remember her owner's name - otherwise I'd search along those lines.

          I can't be certain, but because of her movement and her jump (phenomenal) i would think that she's out of jumper lines or at least a stallion with mixed (jumper/dressage) lines and I see that Andric has the ability for both.

          Is there any reason you suspect A-line? Some of the dressage judges that have seen her suspected Bordeaux or Bolero, but I don't think the location or time frame matches either. I just haven't looked through the A-line yet and the similarity does seem to be striking.

          Thank you again for the valuable insight!


          • #6
            She's got the "a-line look" to me.

            I think Bordeaux was standing in here 94. She's a little tall for a Bordeaux though. Bolero died in '87 I think...and never stood here.

            What I meant by the time-zone remark is that 14 years ago, a lot of breeders still wanted to see the stallions they bred to. Semen was certainly shipped long distances, but it wasn't the dominant method like it is now.

            I hope you find out more. Perhaps there is a CA dressage BB you could post on?

            For sure you are looking for a stallion with a strong topline. She does not have the topline one associates with an F-1 cross.

            ETA - the A-line is a dual producing line. I can say I don't think she's by Armin. There is a specific look Armin's have about the eye that I can't see, and unfortunately, I can't describe either
            "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin


            • Original Poster

              Thanks for the clarification! As far as topline, she does have a rather long back and flat croup, I'm hoping that will be a clue. What sort of topline would one expect with an F-1 cross? Sorry for the hundred questions, learning about the Hanoverian lines and their attributes fascinates me! I'll check into forums in the CA area. The search continues... Thanks again!


              • #8
                She's very strong behind the saddle. Smooth coupling. THough this was certainly still the era of the uber-flat croup in Hanoverians, her croup don't look that flat to me.

                Most TB's don't have that good, strong connection that flows to the hip, and it's hard to breed out. So you usually see a weaker back and more of steep croup in the F-1's.

                Fascinated by this, I just went to the basement and pulled out my 93 breeder's guide. I'm currently taking a trip down memory lane.
                "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin


                • Original Poster

                  This IS fascinating. I had no idea! I knew that she had a strong back/loin/croup connection and good angles in her hips which is why she is able to sit and engage even though her back is long. I didn't realize that the flatter croup was a breed trait a while ago! There is so much to learn!


                  • #10
                    Based on the breeder's guide, my other guesses are....

                    Empire..he stood over a lot of ground.
                    Wertherson. Because of that head. But he usually put a longer leg when corssed with TB mares.

                    Outside guesses...Grusus. But the head isn't right. And she'd likely have more bone.

                    Pik Solo. For the topline and neck. But I have never seen a Pik SOlo/TB cross.

                    Tambourin. For the head. But the topline is better than I'd expect, I'd also expect more length of leg, and lastly I think getting semen over the border from Canada was hell back then.
                    "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin


                    • Original Poster

                      I'll check into all of them! Thank you, thank you!

                      Maybe I should just start sending DNA tests to the AHS with a different sire's name on each one. I'm sure they'd love that!


                      • #12
                        This was fun. 92-94 was the period when I had first become enamored with the breed, and was doing everything I could to learn more about the bloodlines, and what they produced. I'd see a horse I liked and drive people crazy at shows "Who is your horse by? Is that a Banter? Is that a Lanthan?Who was the breeder? do you know the damline?"

                        Good luck!
                        "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin


                        • #13
                          I had a '92 I think Wertherson mare who had a LOT of chrome like that, and a nice head like hers. In fact, she had gotten an 8 on her head at her inspection. She also had the flat croup yet powerful hind end, but her damsire was Manitu who also had that old-fashioned build and I had attributed hers to the dam side. Was also very substantial, again I thought came from Manitu but maybe not.

                          I wish I could help more, good luck finding out what you need. I'll bet she'll have a very nice baby! Who is she in foal to?


                          • #14
                            Reddfox, can you email the photos and history you have on her to sandy@thedesignwerks.com? I am putting together the summer issue of the AHS magazine right now and might have a small space left over where I can run the information - maybe somebody will remember her that way. She is a very beautiful mare.
                            "If a horse has a "warm" back—loose, supple and oscillating—he can lift the rider...on a "cold" back—low and stiff—the rider achieves nothing other than growing old sitting on it." —Charles de Kunffy


                            • #15
                              Another possibility to track down her parentage is to contact the hosts of the big Hanoverian inspections. I don't know who did it in So. CA, but Glenwood Hanoverians had the big No. CA inspections. Judy Ehlers is a wealth of information and might remember her, if she went through a No. Ca inspection.

                              She is a beautiful mare!
                              Mystic Owl Sporthorses


                              • Original Poster

                                I will certainly send the information to the email address you gave me! That sounds like a great idea, let me know if you are able to run the information. I'll send a picture of her jumping too since that was her original "job."

                                She had her foal, gorgeous pally boy by a new young local stallion. Like I said, i thought she was barren so we gave it a shot, and she took on the first shot Giving her a year off and then hoping to breed to Donarweiss! But I want to be able to register the foal.


                                Heli's dad


                                • Original Poster

                                  Copper Bay, I sent the information and some pics to the email you gave me. I saw that you are also a graphic designer like me! Thanks again for the offer to run a bit about her.

                                  I'm going to try to get a hold of Judy Ehlers and see if she remembers Sneakers at all...

                                  Here are a few more pics of Sneaks in her hunter days - might spark some memories since she was not dressage originally.


                                  I'm pretty sure she showed hunters for a while - when she came to me, she no longer jumped (bad accident I think) As you can see, I was able to build her confidence back up but she never really enjoyed jumping again.

                                  Anyway, the Practical Horseman issue that she was featured in was the April 1997 issue and Holly Hugo Vidal was demonstrating how to get a horse off of it's forehand. She was given credit as Sneakers in the article and the farm was in Campobello, SC.

                                  I called PH, but the person who wrote the article was no longer there and there were no further notes about the owner or farm.


                                  • Original Poster

                                    Update, I found the Practical Horseman that she was in, here are scans of the article if this jogs anyone's memory...

                                    That's Holly-Hugo Vidal on her in Campobell, South Carolina.