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Breeding in this economy???

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  • #21
    It'll be interesting how the registeries handle inspections. I stopped at one ISR inspection last year and there was one mare and two foals.

    KWPN NA only has one inspection in the state of CA.

    GOV, RPSI and ISR are criss crossing the country. Maybe the regulations on mandatory inspection of mares and foals/yearlings will have to be revisited.
    www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

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    • #22
      I have two 2008 foals, one due in 2009, and one we will re-breed in 2009. For kicks I put our one (the riding mare came to us pregnant) on the market to see if we got any replies. We didn't get any, so that pretty much solidified our plans. We are keeping one of the '08 babies, the other will be started under saddle at 2.5 and put back on the market. The '09 will probably be for sale (*probably*) but we will also keep, and market going under saddle. I'm on the fence about selling our nicest looking mare at some point after her '09 foal. Putting her under saddle again and into the hunter ring. We shall see... I've definitely decided on selling under saddle though, it just seems like the best way to go for folks who aren't known and don't have big bucks to market them. And I have the luxury of being able to start and train my own horses (as opposed to paying someone else to do it), so that is a plus.
      Celtic Pride Farm
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      • Original Poster

        #23
        [QUOTE=TrueColours;3294705]misita - if I was in your position and those older classically bred mares were mine, I would 100% breed them. If you wait, you may not get another chance to do so as we all know with these older girls, when *you* want them to get in foal, isnt necessarily going to work[/QUOTE]

        That's it. I hate to miss the chance. I'm thinking I should breed them all. In a worst case scenario, I can lower their prices substantially but be more picky about the homes they go in and insist on show homes. At least that way they would be showing for Bravo in the years to come: If they did really well, they would be excellent advertising for Bravo when the market gets better.

        I think this is my plan.
        Chris Misita
        www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net Home of Bravo and Warrick!
        To dare; progress comes at this price. All sublime conquests are, more or less, the rewards of daring.
        Victor Hugo

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        • Original Poster

          #24
          Originally posted by showjumpers66 View Post
          The economy is rough, for sure, and I think it will hit horse shows the hardest which will ultimately affect breeders, too, as it will make it even harder to afford training and showing for young horses to bring. On the flip side, it is going to continue to be more and more expensive to import, so more buyers will be shopping at home.
          I was going to show both Bravo and Panzyr (2 year old Pablo colt) but I had to get them up to date on vaccines before taking them out. I signed them up for the show, then called the vet. By the time I paid the vet bill for yearly shots on them and my pregnant mares, plus I got Panzyr's teeth floated and wolf teeth pulled, I had no money for the show. I had to withdraw them.

          Showjumpers, that is such an interesting point. How many people won't be importing because it's just too expensive, and will be looking harder here, at home? I have to believe the imports will be way down. Even for people who have a lot of money, who wants to pay double for a horse they probably can find here?
          Chris Misita
          www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net Home of Bravo and Warrick!
          To dare; progress comes at this price. All sublime conquests are, more or less, the rewards of daring.
          Victor Hugo

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          • #25
            One other comment that I must add, is that the speculators are saying the economy is down everywhere, and I just have to disagree. My mother just started a new job after being laid off, and they have decided to buy a beach-house; the market is great for a buyer with the additional income (not rich by any means). I live in the NE, and while some are really feeling the pinch, in some area's, the financial strain is just not there. And no, I am not talking about the people who are buying 6-figure horses, I am talking about the upper middle class who has been working hard and saving for a while now, who have done the right things in their financial history. People who are nurses (yes, you can now make that 6-figure salary as a nurse), lots of people in the healthcare industry, accountants, engineers, professors, and even teachers are still making an income and have the money to spend. I am sure there are more, but these are just a few examples....Of course the really rich are fine, but in my area, you can still sell a nice horse very easily.

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            • #26
              We have been agonizing over whether or not to rebreed our girls this year, too. It seems that horses already going u/s are still selling well around here, but the babies/young stock aren't bc no one wants to support a non-working horse for a few years w/ hay and grain getting so expensive.

              Unfortunately we have a fairly small farm, so we are limited to how many we can hold on to (at a time) until they are riding age. This will ultimately be the decision maker for us this year, if one doesn't sell before the end of summer, we probably won't rebreed due to space limitations.

              This will be hard for us because we, too, have a young stallion that needs foals on the ground. Plus I adore our main broodmare and feel like it would be a shame to miss a year with her. She has such beautiful foals that I'm sure will sell quickly once they are old enough to be u/s... At least she is pretty young still - if she is left open I will put some more training on her and take her to some shows. Our other mare is not young though... If we skip this year w/ her, I think that will be it.

              Sure wish we could have a quick peek at what the world will be like a year from now!
              Blacktree Farm
              Lessons, Training & Sporthorse Sales.
              Blacktree Studio
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              • #27
                Just read that the US lags behind 30 other countries in estimated life span.

                The difference - national health care.

                Americans tend to be myopic about how people live in other countries.

                Recently, an American was outbid in a horse auction in Germany by an elderly Swiss couple.

                Our dollar is going down the toilet.

                Hope all you horse forum junkies are also spending time reading newspapers, magazines and online blogs etc. about the state of the US and are prepared to vote in November.

                Back to working on an insurance quote for a family of four, wife laid off from company job with benefits, so parents and two young kids have no health insurance. Kids are three and five months.
                www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

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                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  I hope I haven't crossed over and into being a 'forum junkie'. I do watch the news and neither nominee inspires me with any hope. Again, it just comes down to the lesser of 2 evils. Makes me sick.
                  Chris Misita
                  www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net Home of Bravo and Warrick!
                  To dare; progress comes at this price. All sublime conquests are, more or less, the rewards of daring.
                  Victor Hugo

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                  • #29
                    Well I wouldn't be so doom and gloom - perhaps the network news (which loves to paint everything black) is getting to people.

                    JMO - but as far as financial markets the last few years have been tremendous. The tanking of some financial houses and banks is really do to their hideous record of making 100% loans and also not controlling their in house people. Having had a career in the financial world - I was always told - you really don't know sh** about the markets until you've made it through a bear market without losing your butt. A majority of the younger professionals working in the financial world came and have worked continuously in a bull market and unfortunately I've seen personally that they have put too many people into too much high risk and the investors pay the price. I started out when Jimmy Carter was President and prime was hovering around 19% - I was happy to have a job in NY but changing jobs was a huge risk and serious decision. Nothing was happening - everything was flat. I'm glad I know how bad a flat market can be and it gave me a very conservative investment approach even in this recent bull market.

                    We now have world markets and everything is moving faster due to technology. My husband started out in commodities - cash crops and that was already a world market and as he often says - you could lose a $5million dollar position just going to the bathroom. Well all the markets are like that now.

                    If people don't see the connection to ethynol production and the cost of corn and how it impacts their lives - not just horse feed - but remember CORN SYRUP is in a lot of foods - so don't be suprised if you don't get free ketchup packets in the near future.

                    Every movement in one market affects other markets by varying degrees. If tax changes affect the upper income bracket it WILL AFFECT OUR BREEDING BUSINESS. Horses are a discretionary item - so the big buck people will continue to buy big buck horses but the next level will be hit very hard and my heart aches to think how many more lower priced horses will be heading to slaughter. If the taxes on the big money people are changed they can just pull back - put their money into tax free bonds and ride it out - which means less money going into investments and businesses which directly affects jobs.

                    Even though my state NJ is extremely corrupt and has the highest taxes and car insurance rates - many area of the state has not seen any slow down in construction or spending. If taxes continue to go higher the hardest hit will be people who are overextended on their homes and are living where they are completely DEPENDENT on using a care (or 2) to get to work and to get their children anywhere. Demographic projects predicted 10 years ago that the population would start to shift back to the cities and fuel costs will probably be one of the factors that will force the migration. So alot of people who life outside the city who may have been able to afford horses and board them somewhere may have to give up the luxury and that will affect horse sales.

                    We live in an area with a great deal of preserved farms and it has been interesting to see alot of acreage that was not cropped or in winter wheat and hay has now been disked and planted with corn. This will probably affect our hay prices in the future and the situation in the MidWest will definitely put pressure on commodity prices.

                    Most responsible breeders put thought into the decision making process on how many mares to breed and which stallions to use to produce a sporthorse or pony that can have a viable future. The backyard breeders are the ones that always seem to think they have to keep breeding anything with a uterus to anything with nuts and those foals are heading nowhere.
                    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

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                    • #30
                      Network news is very shallow. You need a variety of news sources to be informed.
                      www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

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                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        Originally posted by Oakstable View Post
                        Network news is very shallow. You need a variety of news sources to be informed.
                        Agreed.
                        Last edited by misita; Jun. 17, 2008, 05:05 PM.
                        Chris Misita
                        www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net Home of Bravo and Warrick!
                        To dare; progress comes at this price. All sublime conquests are, more or less, the rewards of daring.
                        Victor Hugo

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I'm not breeding my mares back. One mare is leased to a stallion owner friend of mine who's always wanted a foal from her. The others will be vaccinated in the fall for EVA and will sit open a year. I'm full right now.

                          Hard to be all flowerly about the economy.

                          Gas/diesel prices are setting record highs. Several large businesses here in my state are leaving/laying off/closing. A LOT of people unemployed here. Bad weather is causig grain and hay prices to skyrocket. Food prices are skyrocketing for the same reason. When in 3 year span you see hay go from $2 a bale to $6 a bale, you take notice. When a bag of feed goes from $20 a bag to $35 a bag, you notice.

                          Nope, I'm sitting this year out. It sucks, but I don't want to get in over my head, financially.
                          Hopeful Farm Sport Horses
                          Midwest Breeders Group
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                          • #33
                            I think the shows over the next 6 months will be a huge indicator for the horse industry. If entries start dropping off significantly.
                            Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                            "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

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                            • #34
                              Maybe the regulations on mandatory inspection of mares and foals/yearlings will have to be revisited.
                              Zangersheide do not charge for mare registrations, or charge mare dues. We also do NOT have mandatory inspections for mares and foals. That should save you all a little bit of money.

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                              • #35
                                The overseas market is incredible right now..that's all I'm sayin!!!
                                Zillionair Cremello JC Thoroughbred & Pure White Gold All White Palomino Dual Thoroughbred & APHA
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                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by Blonde Filly View Post
                                  The overseas market is incredible right now..that's all I'm sayin!!!
                                  Incredibly good?
                                  Chris Misita
                                  www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net Home of Bravo and Warrick!
                                  To dare; progress comes at this price. All sublime conquests are, more or less, the rewards of daring.
                                  Victor Hugo

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                                  • #37
                                    Ditto to that question - which overseas market are you talking about?
                                    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                                    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

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                                    • #38
                                      I think she means that with a very limited supply of colored TB world wide the international market is quite hungry for those horses and the demand is strong.
                                      Véronique
                                      www.FormosusSporthorses.ca
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                                      • #39
                                        I live in the soggy Midwest. Maybe it's an old saying but corn SHOULD be knee high by the 4th of July. There is very little, if any, around where I live that's even planted yet. It needs an early dry spring so the farmers can get in their fields and plow and plant. Then it needs spring rains to get it going, and then it needs the hot dry summers to bring it to maturity. There is going to be little to no corn crop around here (mid Illinois) this year.

                                        I vote for ise@ssl for US President or at the very least Secretary of Whatever Makes This Country Run. You make more sense than I've heard in a long time.

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                                        • #40
                                          Well as ise@ssl stated the folks that are in that intermediary income area which is me - start getting hit with higher taxes(depends on who gets into office), higher food (already), higher gas (already), higher riding/traing bills (already) and just announced that natural gas will go up 40% by sometime in August..

                                          It is going to hit us HARD. I only have two horses - one I am trying to aim at the higher levels of jumping and the other I was also thinking of breeding but not in this economy. I dont know if I can afford with all the things I mentioned above to get to that higher level of the jumpers.

                                          Its very disheartening...

                                          I wanted to breed very badly and have done endless hours of research - been my dream since a small child but I am too scared about where things are going.
                                          Last edited by EquineLVR; Jun. 19, 2008, 06:35 PM.
                                          Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
                                          " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
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