Stallions with spectacular damlines..who are they?

[Indy-lou]

Love this thread. www.paardenfokken.nl was mentioned as an internet resource for damline research, and while it is wonderful and I refer to it all of the time, bear in mind it is not necessarily COMPLETE, there can be many horses missing from the database.

[stolensilver]

I'm not sure if this counts as spectacular but Silvermoon has a successful damline. His dam has produced two graded stallions (Silvermoon and Schampus, both of whom have competed at FEI level dressage) and a daughter (Syvari) who has recently produced another graded stallion in Symont.
The granddam is only recorded as having one offspring but the great granddam produced yet another graded stallion (Schubert who himself produced a big tour dressage horse). And the great granddam produced a mare whose line produced the graded stallion Stresemann.
And Silvermoon himself has produced the great Matine and international GP horse Success from very few mares.

[Oakstable]

Stolensilver,
Are you talking about the stallion Schubert who stood in CA?

[houserabbitz]

Thanks for the post, Fannie Mae.

[stolensilver]

Oakstable yes, Schubert did stand in the US, at Ridgecrest Farms. He produced a stallion called Galileo who competed up to Inter 2.
http://www.americantrakehner.com/Res...?ID=ORB-A-S711

[Donella]

And Silvermoon himself has produced the great Matine and international GP horse Success from very few mares

Yeah, I often wonder how many mares he actually gets being grey and in Denmark ? Seems to have produced well nonetheless.

[Oakstable]

I knew Schubert very well, bred to him 3x. My oldest is 20 this year and still competing.

Galileo was an adorable chestnut.

[stolensilver]

Silvermoon has been in Germany for many years where being grey is a huge crime. He was used as a racehorse trainers hack for several years as there was no demand at all for him as a stallion. And then Matine burst onto the scene.

His son Cadeau is one of the most popular Trakehner stallions in Germany. Cadeau is bay. I'm not sure how much Silvermoon is being used even now but his studfee has shot up! Silvermoon is the stallion I'm using for my mare this year. I hope she scans in foal.

[Renae]

I don't know if he has been mentioned yet or not but the stallion Olivier has a spectacualr damline. He is a KWPN foalbook stallion that is BWP approved.

[szipi]

This is slightly OT but are ALL Holsteiner marelines given a stamm number, or is it just those lines which have produced approved stallions that are numbered?

TIA!

ALL of them do...and then the value of the mare line is determined by what it produced!!!!!!!!

[bluemoonfarms]

Very interesting reading about Harli Seifert's breeding mareline can be found here http://www.pferdezucht-harli-seifert...idcat=4&lang=4

And my all time favorite mare ever is Loretta the dam of Sandro Hit etc...

[RedMare01]

The stallions DaCaprio and DeLaurentis here in the US both come from the same damline. The mare Kiks (Laterit x Kilady xx) is the granddam of both, and they are out of full sisters (Caprimond x Kiks). Interestingly, both stallions are by Donnerhall sons on the top.

Caitlin

[not again]

My stallion had an awesome dam:
http://www.paardenfokken.nl/pedigree.php?horseid=302703
She produced an Olympic jumper, hall of fame working hunter, IJF finalist, and several others besides my GP dressage guy.

[Kareen]

So what have Loretta and her family produced in the performance department? I mean aside from the fact that Diamond Hit (who I adore!) is the only descendant who went out and showed beyond his 6yo there is a remarkable discrepance there between show/sale successes and performance don't you think?

[Cartier]

So what have Loretta and her family produced in the performance department?

Hmmmm? Ramino, Ramiro, Welt As .. no accomplishments in these bloodlines in "the performance department"?

I mean aside from the fact that Diamond Hit (who I adore!) is the only descendant who went out and showed beyond his 6yo there is a remarkable discrepance there between show/sale successes and performance don't you think?

Just an observation here having read your comments for years now, but you all really have a thing about Paul… what’s the story on that? Sounds like the green eyed monster to me. For all your criticisms of his collection (which includes Chacco Blue, Cento, For Pleasure etc.), where are all these stallions that are doing more for the Sporthorse market world wide? Not to say that there aren’t other great stallions (and Kudos to Edgar)… but how about some recognition for what Paul does to generate excitement in the marketplace and push prices up. The guy is not perfect, but who is? IF you guys don’t want Paul (and his collection and his marketing abilities), we’ll take him over here any day, warts and all.

[talloaks]

Cartier, Paul was over here, he owned Chestnut Lawn Farm in VA for years!! He is more than welcome back ANYTIME!!

[Kareen]

We were talking damlines not stallions but it is quite revealing you seem to not distinguish between these two things
As far as stallions go I have never picked on PS collection as a whole. If you think I did please show me the thread instead of turning around what I said here or elsewhere.
I have even used stallions of his repeatedly and I can say with good success. This thread has recently turned into a direction where we've discussed the difference between a performance damline and a spectacular damline.
Go check your yearbooks. There isn't anything beside Diamond Hit that has competed at the higher levels. The most predominant fact these horses have in common is they have all sold for a ton of € at some point in life or at least thought of as the reincarnation of dressage and then pretty much went downhill. Show me the GP-competitors and where the string of sporthorses is that marks a successful damline over the generations. I can assure you you won't find them as there aren't any... But of course it is much easier to accuse someone on a bb of having a personal grudge against some stallion owner when all they've ever done is to point out proven facts.
Funnily whenever the facts come on the table there are a row of people quite ready to grow very loud to jump at PS's defense when in fact he himself probably couldn't give a rat's *** as this kind of chat is completely irrelevant to him *LOL*.
Someone on horsegate went to the bother of doing stats on Lewitz' studfarm and surprise surprise from all those 5000 foals they say claim they have put on the ground there over 10 years, there are no more than 250 altogether who ever did anything recorded in the FN yearbooks as of 2008. I know you hate it when you are wrong but PS is definitely a better salesman than a breeder and I don't think he cares but simply follows his own vision which is perfectly fine.

[Cartier]

Cartier, Paul was over here, he owned Chestnut Lawn Farm in VA for years!!

I know and I agree, let's ask him back... it would save a ton of $$$ on shipping fees.

We were talking damlines not stallions but it is quite revealing you seem to not distinguish between these two things ;.

When we evaluate dam lines one criteria we use is the stallions they have produced and what those stallions have done and produced. Not sure what all that reveals ... you always seem to come to the discussion with so many a priori assumptions, it’s hard to know what filters through.

As for the rest of your post, boy your positive observations and compliments about Schockemöhle just can’t come fast enough. Thank god you aren’t on some harangue about him, can’t imagine what your posts would be like then.

Bottom line, I think most breeders and buyers look at what Schockemöhle has accomplished for Sporthorse breeding and the market in general (compared with what his critics have accomplished) and then go forward accordingly.

[Hi Jump]

I may be repeating part of this thread but has anyone mentioned Special Memories dam Kluwall, she is as well the dam of Olympic double gold winner Touch of Class and multiple steeplechase winner Crocodile Tears.

Lisa , Synergy Sporthorses
Home to stallions Cotopaxi and Raffaello
http://www.synergysporthorses.net

[RedMare01]

Cartier
When we evaluate dam lines one criteria we use is the stallions they have produced and what those stallions have done and produced.

This shows the mareline of Loretta. Except for her herself, there has been nothing spectacular from that mareline (actually nothing at all, in fact, it only goes back a few generations).

Compare that to Diarado or Fuerst Romancier or Bordeaux (also at PS) and you can see a big difference.

Caitlin