• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Possible nurse mare needed & Help with mare rejecting foal!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Possible nurse mare needed & Help with mare rejecting foal!

    We have a 2 day of foal who's mother is 'rejecting her' and may be in need of a nurse mare. I posted on Cyber Foal but thought to post here as well.

    The mother is a maiden and very aggressive towards the foal and has not demonstrated any 'bonding'.

    We have been working with the mare and foal non stop since birth. And are struggling to simply allow the foal to nurse on a regular basis.

    Will post additional detail of the mare's behavior and what interventions we have been doing later when i have time to write.

    Thanks in advance for any support or advice!

  • #2
    I had the same thing 4 years ago. The old horsemen around here said to use acepromazine, tie the mare to the wall, twitch her and even tie up a front leg if needed. I did all that because the foal was a good one and if the mare couldn't be a broodmare she was good for nothing else. In my case it did not work out but persistence, and total restraint of the mare are essential because the foal will be scared of her. Call all the vets in your area to try to find a nurse mare candidate. Are you sure your mare even has milk? If it is just a pet quality baby they do fine raised on a bucket. Also once in a blue moon foals have sharp edges on their front teeth which can be smoothed with a nail file.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sandy's Nursemare Service provides nursemares in your area.

      Sandy's Nursemare Service & Colostrum Bank
      Blooms Corner Rd
      Warwick, NY 10990
      Phone: 845-988-5265

      If you do an online search you may find more contact info like an email and additional phone numbers.
      Altamont Sport Horses
      Trakehners * Knabstruppers * Appaloosa Sport Horses
      Home of stallions: Ambrosius af Asgard "Atlantis" & Hollywood Hot Spot
      Birmingham, AL

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Mare is allowing the foal to nurse with some restraint. We alternate between tying to a ring on the back wall of the stall and holding her by hand with a lead rope.

        It's not difficult to control the mare - but she has to be observed at all times.

        We keep trying to allow her to stand unrestrained but ultimately she tires of the expereince within a few minutes and attacks the foal with teeth or kicking.

        The mare has thrown the foal on the ground multiple times and has shown no signs of bonding.

        Normal delivery. Maiden mare so she tore a bit but no fever and swelling is improving all the time. Gave banamine etc. Mare is eating, drinking etc. Normal BM.

        At the time of delivery when still laying down - the mare was catatonic and not engaging with the nickering foal at all. We helped scoot to foal around to her head and rubbed the foal's scent on her etc. But she never nickered back. As soon as she got up from foaling she wouldn't look at the foal and after about 10minutes she went on the offensive and started kicking and biting at the foal.

        For the first 24hrs we stayed close by/ in the stall and gave tons of support to the mare encouraging her when she stood quietly for a minute and scolded her for aggressive behavior.

        Finally we decided to move the mare to a separate stall next to the foal. She simply can't be trusted unattended for a moment.

        We are now leading the mare into the foal's stall every 90min and allowing the foal to nurse.

        She has a great bag and milk supply and will tolerate the foal nursing for brief periods with us watching. Turn your back and the foal is thrown to the ground.

        Foal is gaining weight and looking healthy. Normal foal exam, no fever, normal BM and urination. Umbilicus looks great. Foal gets up easily and is strong with nursing.

        I'm just not sure what else to do. The mare doesn't nicker or show any signs at all of bonding with the foal. The foal is now 2 days old and I'd like to help her get out of the stall for a bit in the next day or so but can't trust the mare at all.

        I'm really concerned about the foal growing up with normal imprinting and 'horse behavior'.

        As a side note for those giving advice etc. I do have another broodmare on the farm who has a 30 day old colt at her side. She is a great mare. Always taking really good care of her foals and not overly protective.

        Not sure if my other mare can help us out in any way - but thought it would be good to include her as she might wind up being an asset to us if this continues.

        Comment


        • #5
          This is really a hard one. The foal needs exercise, but if the mare attacks it outside, it could kill it. Because the foal has had the colostrum it needed, I might be inclined to put it out with the other mare and foal and rig up one of Fairview's igloo feeders for free choice milk replacer. Of course, you will have to make sure the other mare will accept its presence.

          Alternatively, you could keep the mare restrained (best way is to put a board across the stall at stifle height to make a standing stall for her, tie her with water and hay in front of her). The problem with that is that she and the foal both need exercise.

          Jingling that you get a solution. My gut feeling is that if she has not accepted the foal by now, she won't ever accept it enough to be safe.
          Mary Lou
          http://www.homeagainfarm.com

          https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

          Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

          Comment


          • #6
            That post is very interesting and I have questions:

            Doe's the "good" mare could nurse both foals ?

            Is the "bad" mare going to act that way with each and every foal she will have in the future or is that a maiden behavior ?

            Sending jingles to you.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Spoke with a few other breeders and they weren't very optimistic either.

              So this afternoon the mare's milk supply has started going down. She 'appears' full but when you try to milk her using various methods they is little to be had.

              Just finished feeding the foal her first 'milk replacer' meal (sigh)

              So update is - Looking for a nurse mare!

              Comment


              • #8
                we lost a foal last week but I do not believe ours would be a good nurse mare. Did you try one of the nurse mare companies like Sandy's ???
                www.signaturesporthorses.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  http://members.aol.com/fairviewhorsectr/igloo.html

                  If the foal has horsey company in the form of an older horse or a weanling, they will grow up fine. Try to get Land Of Lakes or Buckeye milk replacer as both are acidified and keep longer than Foalac, etc. Keep us posted and best of luck to you!
                  Mary Lou
                  http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                  https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                  Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You should try giving the mare 2cc of acepromazine im If she has milk she might let it down better. (doublecheck with your vet), and just leave her tied, you could even hobble her. You can rig up some sort of straight stall partition in the box stall where she can live. Leave enough of a gap in the boards so the foal can reach in and nurse. It will suck for the mare, but??

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      On different farms I have been on and seen this same thing, I never seen good endings unless a Nursemare was brougt in. In some cases people got hurt and I mean bad hurt. Some were lucky and just got jammed fingers or stpped on, but others.... The foals have it tough until a nursemare gets there. Most of the farms get a nursemare. There are people that raise foals from a bucket, but the foals are nothing like a foal raised by a horse. I always thought it was the way a foal nurses. With its neck and head up and under. The natural way. Can't do that with a bucket or igloo. When we fed calves, they fed from bottles that were tilted down in the holders. The calves had to drink from up and under. They did well too. I hope you can get Sandys Nursemare Sevice. Shes the best at what she does.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sandys contact numbers

                        Heres some more phone numbers. Sandys Nursemare Service. 845-452-7666 845-656-3537 or email Nursemareone@webtv.net Sandy is out on a nursemare run as i write this. She should be on her way back by now. It was in NY state. Give her a call, I know she has nursemares available.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This was awhile ago, but we had one violently reject her foal. We ended up keeping her aced and in a lip chain (now I think a bungee on the lip would work even better). It took about a week before we could let down our guard and start leaving she and the foal unattended and by 10 days they were normal. The next year it took a day of drugs and lip chain for mom to come around, the next a few hours and after that she was one of our best mares. I'm thinking that not all mares will come around like Kaleigh did, but she had a history of abuse and I think that may have had something to do with it.

                          Good luck.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi T-Having raised a few orphans in my day, with replacer he should do fine. We have a 6 month old orphan colt we are raising (rescue who's dam died 2 days after foaling and we got him when he was 6 days old) and he was trained to drink from a bucket from the beginning.

                            That being said, I wish you were closer as my oldest mare, who just foaled last night HAS nursed two babies at once, hers and another orphan, before and I know she would do it again.

                            Best wishes it all works out for all involved. We'll be thinking of you!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The experience Jennywho had is what I have heard can happen if the mare has milk and you you persist. The alternatives get expensive.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                We gave the mare ample time and opportunity to do the right
                                thing. We've talked with tons of knowlegable breeders who have
                                been in similar situations in the past and decided that 3 complete days
                                of working agressivly with both mare and foal to foster some type
                                of bond was ultimately just not progressing in a direction we could
                                accept.

                                We have at this point turned to milk replacers to support the foal and
                                have placed a half wall across the foaling stall and placed a quiet
                                young mare on the other side for some type of companionship.

                                The foal is remarkably in good spirits with strong appetite and is
                                gaining weight.

                                We'll be keeping a close eye on one hind leg that has a swollen
                                hock due to one of the mare's attacks. The foal is weight baring
                                and the swelling is coming down but her fetlock is 'tight'. So
                                the possibility of a sesmoid fracture exists.

                                Thanks to all of you for your support via private e-mails. All of
                                your input has been taken into high consideration for different
                                outcomes.

                                More updates to come!

                                PS
                                We have been in touch with several nursemare programs but just don't have the budget at this time to bring in a mare for $3500 plus breed back fees.

                                We will see how bucket feeding and quiet companion works.

                                Thank you again for all the support and concern!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  The igloo works amazingly well! It keeps the milk fresh all day, no possibility of another horse dumping it, no flies. You can know the baby got what he needs, without another playing in it. Using the igloo lets you be able to keep the baby with others so they learn to be horses, and not be so dependent on humans. They grow up to be normal horses.

                                  Good luck with your baby.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Fairview

                                    Can you give me details about the igloo??

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I made a page to help others with orphans, after it worked so well with mine. I would never do it any other way. Buckets are so gross, and you just never know who has been messing with them if you have the foal out with others. http://members.aol.com/fairviewhorsectr/igloo.html
                                      Attached Files

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Fairview-you're the bomb!!!
                                        I don't even have babies right now but that is just the greatest. I'm glad the mare is seperated from her baby-I was cringing that the outcome would not be good. Mares that reject their babies usually don't act catatonic-that is wierd. but, I am sure your baby will be fine. Do you have a good gelding to baby sit? Mine have always had those. And it is so nice to have them get beaten up instead of me-

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X