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U.S Eventing Video: Breeding and Preparing the 4 star horse

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  • U.S Eventing Video: Breeding and Preparing the 4 star horse

    Bruce Davidson, Denny Emerson, and Buck Davidson take the stage to share their experiences in breeding, raising, and training four-star horses and riders.

    http://blip.tv/useventing/breeding-a...-rider-2996197
    Ryu Equestrian & Facebook Page
    Breeding Horses Today, for the Equestrian Sport of Tomorrow.
    Osteen & Gainesville, Florida.

  • #2
    THANK-YOU!!! Lots of wisdom here.
    Kendra -- Runningwater Warmbloods
    Home of EM Raleska (Rascalino/ Warkant) and Donatella M (Furstenball/ Jazz Time)
    'Like' us on Facebook

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    • #3
      Finally had an evening alone to watch this......

      Gosh. I think I finally found someone I genuinely admire.

      Brilliant, yet so down to earth. Folks, you MUST watch this!
      www.EquusMagnificus.ca
      Breeding & Sales
      Facebook | YouTube

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      • #4
        Love this video---have posted it myself. Lots of wisdom and plain common since.
        Redbud Ranch
        Check us out on FB

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        • #5
          I thought the video was very information. Cross training horses is something we support. I did not agree with Bruce that a foal will only be as good as the mare and that a stallion can't improve that. We have not had that experience.
          Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
          "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

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          • #6
            That was awesome and I totally agree. Especially love the first and last 5 minutes.

            As a failed buyer, all my research points to the points Bruce made in the beginning of the video. Having an exceptional mare, NUTRITION (not only proper feed, but proper land to raise them on), how they are raised as foals/young horses, and genetics.

            I hear what you are saying ise@ssl, but I think his point is a valid one. I would think you can certainly improve slightly on a mare with a good stallion, but at the end of the day one cannot expect to produce exceptional horses with average or poor mares.
            On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ise@ssl View Post
              I thought the video was very information. Cross training horses is something we support. I did not agree with Bruce that a foal will only be as good as the mare and that a stallion can't improve that. We have not had that experience.
              I thought maybe he was just trying to discourage people from breeding less than stellar mares and hoping a great stallion will fix her faults? I don't know though, maybe he was completely serious instead of exaggerating slightly.

              I do feel like 60% comes from the mare (I think that is something else he said). Particularly the basics of the movement and certain behaviors (for example, my baby loaded alone the first time perfectly, and I think it is because she was hauled with her mother as a foal and her mother trailered very easily--not because I am some great trainer). Likewise they can learn negative things from the mother. So maybe that is the extra 10% she contributes...
              DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

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              • #8
                Very good video. I enjoyed it. especially the part about letting youngstock grow up like horses!

                I do agree is Iss@ssl about being able to improve on an average mare...yes, yes, yes you can. I actually find it easier to accomplish with the WB stallions on TB mares though. Perhaps because both breeds have been heavily linebred in the past so your F1 cross has a bit of "hybrid vigor" per say. Improving on an average (or bellow average) wamblood mare I think is more difficult though. Perhaps he is speaking more from the standpoint of TB breeding for the eventing market?

                That being said, I do believe in breeding for the best and culling the mares that PRODUCE bellow average from your broodmare band. My bet is more on what a mare produces than what she has done or who she is.

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                • #9
                  Really enjoyed the video… and seeing Denny Emerson reminds me that we (Logres Farm) owe him a debt of gratitude. Back in December of 2006 we needed footage of Commander (our 2004 Oldenburg colt by Contango out of fancy Ruler) going through a jump chute to complete his sale to England. We had a very small window of opportunity to get the footage we needed (I should mention that Arthur and I always believed that Commander could jump, and we 100% believed in the quality of his damline). We live in the same community as Mr. Emerson, but we’ve never met. In desperation I called Mr. Emerson, introduced myself as “a small American breeder with a chance for an international sale.”

                  “Did he have a jump cute we could use?”

                  Mr. Emerson was most gracious (to total strangers) and allowed us to use his facility. We got the video, the sale went through… and below are photos of Commander from September and October of 2011.

                  I agree with Bruce’s points about quality begetting quality. With respect to Ilona’s comments, I think that we need to consider the context. Ilona is an experienced breeder, with a very good eye… she would not have a sub par animal on her property. So, what she might consider an average horse is probably far above “average.”
                  Attached Files
                  Logres Farm on Facebook
                  http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                  http://logresdobermans.com/

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                  • #10
                    another of Commander and an old shot of Cooldanz, who last we heard was in Belgium eventing.
                    Attached Files
                    Logres Farm on Facebook
                    http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                    http://logresdobermans.com/

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                    • #11
                      WOW Cartier, what a gorgeous animal. One of my dream horses from childhood - little Joe's horse on steroid!s

                      And I agree about the mare thing. I really think he's talking about the fact that so many people have an attitude of "I can't ride it (for whatever reason), it has a uterus, let's breed it". Hell I got that from people about my little mare (who was to be fair super) except for the little problem of having OCD and neurological problems. But hey, she has a uterus, you should breed her!
                      On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Perfect Pony View Post
                        And I agree about the mare thing. I really think he's talking about the fact that so many people have an attitude of "I can't ride it (for whatever reason), it has a uterus, let's breed it".

                        That was my impression of what he was saying. Unfortunately we now live in a world of "I can do whatever I want, and no one can tell me otherwise, but when push comes to shove, you all will have to pick up the pieces for my messes." I suspect that Bruce was engaged in a free flowing stream of consciousness and his larger point might have been more about exercising caution. Hard to say.

                        As I recall - from back when we spent time together - Alain had Babamist and Machison Sword semen and access to some of Bruce and Mary’s mares, including Mystic High (whom Bruce competed at Badminton), Last Mystic and Genevieve’s Gift. Not sure if any competition horses ever came from the breedings Alain did, but simply by virtue of the pedigrees, there should be several.

                        In my experience, in addition to the exterior package, there is an almost indefinable quality that great animals have (and transmit). For want of a better way to describe it, it is an arrogance or fire that permeates their very being.. that tranlates to an iron will to continue, press on, give that last measure of effort... etc.

                        Commander's dam Fancy Ruler was 22 when we bought her in 2003 and bred her to Contango. She had a foal at her side (a filly by Salute The Truth) that we had to purchase in order to ship Fancy Ruler to ISF for the Cantango breeding. I still vividly remember standing outside of Fancy Ruler's stall in the moments before we decided to purchase her, being awed. Even as an aged mare she had an amazing presence to her... I see it in Commander.
                        Last edited by Cartier; Nov. 3, 2011, 08:30 PM.
                        Logres Farm on Facebook
                        http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                        http://logresdobermans.com/

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                        • #13
                          Thank you for sharing the video. Really insightful. I love the part of raising young horses like horses. Mine are raised in a small herd on very rugged land and they go running up and down the mountains, slipping and sliding when it's wet. I've had more than a few shocked looks when people see my herd come barreling down the mountains much like snow skiers. I get comments like 'survival of the fitest'. But I believe it's very healthy for them to be raised like this.

                          I'm very interested in his comments about starting the horses at 1 or 2 years old briefly and then putting them away again until 3. I'd would love to hear more discussion on peoples experiences starting them this early.

                          Congratulations on your beautiful and successful horses Cartier!
                          Chris Misita
                          www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net Home of Bravo and Warrick!
                          To dare; progress comes at this price. All sublime conquests are, more or less, the rewards of daring.
                          Victor Hugo

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by misita View Post
                            I love the part of raising young horses like horses. Mine are raised in a small herd on very rugged land and they go running up and down the mountains, slipping and sliding when it's wet. I've had more than a few shocked looks when people see my herd come barreling down the mountains much like snow skiers. I get comments like 'survival of the fitest'. But I believe it's very healthy for them to be raised like this.
                            I agree... I think it best that we let horses be horses... rather than treating them like porcelain dolls. Our pasture has a roll to it... but i'd love it if it were a bit more hilly. Both Hilltop and Iron Spring Farm have great facilities, but on a more "human" scale, one of the best situations for raising youngsters that I've seen is Danielle Veasy's place. In my view, Danielle's Southern Oaks Farm combines just the balance of turn-out-freedom and hand-on-structure for her horses.
                            Logres Farm on Facebook
                            http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                            http://logresdobermans.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by misita View Post
                              I'm very interested in his comments about starting the horses at 1 or 2 years old briefly and then putting them away again until 3. I'd would love to hear more discussion on peoples experiences starting them this early.
                              Do you remember where in the video that was? I had to stop around minute 22, but would like to go listen to that.
                              DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
                                Do you remember where in the video that was? I had to stop around minute 22, but would like to go listen to that.
                                It was towards the end. Really interesting.
                                Chris Misita
                                www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net Home of Bravo and Warrick!
                                To dare; progress comes at this price. All sublime conquests are, more or less, the rewards of daring.
                                Victor Hugo

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I attended a symposium Bruce gave on sporthorse breeding years ago in Houston and he said the same basic things. I, too, found it interesting that he would get on the 2yr olds and ride them mostly in straight lines and take them up and down a bank (similar to trailer loading he said) with older steady horses, then turn them out until the next year and do it again. He also said he would sometimes put a little ace on board for their first time because he wanted the horse to have a positive experience. I know many vets say that horses cannot learn while on ace, but in the minute amount he was speaking of, I could see his point.

                                  Oh, he also said that he had a line of telephone poles set as bounces that he used to teach horses how to jump properly.

                                  I so wish someone would have recorded that symposium and the clinics he taught that day. By that time, he had mellowed a bit from his younger years, but was still a tough yet fair instructor.
                                  Rhode Islands are red;
                                  North Hollands are blue.
                                  Sorry my thoroughbreds
                                  Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :

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