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Eventing Stallions

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  • Eventing Stallions

    There have been a number of posts of the past year (including some of my own) discussing stallions who have been (or perhaps should be) used to purpose-breed upper level eventers. Because I am mildly obsessive about this, I have attempted to collect and organize the information in a number of those threads for my own benefit, and thought that work might be helpful to others as well.

    Some parameters:

    1. Lots of stallion owners believe their stallion (of whatever stripe) could sire an upper level eventer. I have typically discounted claims by stallion owners, if that is all that is out there.

    2. I have generally omitted sires that are not easily availble to breeders in North America. Access to Master Imp, Heraldik, the Louella stallions or now-deceased Cavalier Royale is not an option for most breeders in North America. I don't purport to be an expert on which stallions are available, however, so if a prominent overseas stallion not on this list is available frozen, please let me know.

    3. I admittedly know next-to-nothing about top-producing French Selle Francais stallions for eventing and their availability in North America. This chart could be improved by their inclusion. I probably am shorting the NA-available UK-based full Thoroughbreds as well. Please help me there.

    4. Some of the stallions on the list are not necessarily proven producers yet. My criteria are somewhat flexible, but generally speaking, the listed stallions either (1) are historic producers; (2) have a pedigree that suggests suitability for eventing (usually as a result of a high % of Thoroughbred blood and/or ancestors/relatives who sired top eventers; (3) have shown an aptitude for eventing themselves (Preliminary and above); (4) are being used by established breeders in their programs; (5) are being touted by established/knowledgeable breeders as showing the potential to be impact eventing sires.

    5. While my own thoughts have probably impacted this list to some extent, it is more of an attempt at a collation of collective wisdom. I don't necessarily prefer all of the sires listed, and wouldn't use some of them myself for a variety of reasons, but they have made the list for one of the reasons above. I am not recommending any stallion in particular, as every breeding decision is different; there will certainly be multiple future threads on that as posters debate the pros and cons of eventing stallions.

    I'd love comments as to whether additional stallions ought to be included (or existing ones dropped). Simple recommendations are less helpful -- the whys of inclusion or exclusion are educationally more important, at least for me.

    The list currently stands at 45 sires - help me complete it, please. If this is a productive exercise, I'll try to put in in the FAQ for future reference.

    Hope this is interesting and helpful.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Peregrine Farm; Oct. 14, 2011, 01:46 PM.

  • #2
    Worthy Opponent. He's walking the walk at least. He went prelim in 2010. the intent was Intermediate this year, but I don't know if that happened.

    ETA - I just looked him up, he has completed two HT at OI this fall.
    Last edited by ahf; Oct. 14, 2011, 12:01 PM. Reason: addit. info
    "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin

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    • #3
      Just a quick note as I peeked at the list. Hunter is not a TB. He's an imported Holsteiner stallion by Heraldik.

      Also if Herald is Herald 3, then he's now here in the US. He too is a Holsteiner and also by Heraldik.
      "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Ack - thanks. I will fix and re-attach the chart.

        I had heard that Herald 3 might be in the U.S., but wasn't sure. I will fix that as well. Much of this was pulled from memory, so thanks for the comments!

        Note - revised chart is attached to the original post. Any other errors, please let me know.

        Comment


        • #5
          Great list and wonderful that you are willing to put this together. My only small correction is that Avebury is WF not TF for Watermark Farm.
          He is a direct grandson of *Abundance, who sired Aachen, winner of the first Rolex competition in Kentucky as well as being USCTA (now USEA) horse of the year. I don't know if there are any other licensed stallions left here in North America that represent the Absatz-Abundance line.
          Anne
          -------
          "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

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          • Original Poster

            #6
            Fixed - thanks!

            Comment


            • #7
              Bridon Beale Street RID is competing at prelim. Most of his IDSH offspring are young <5, but are doing quite well in the FEH and lower levels. I think his sport horse offspring will be something to watch in the comming years

              I just looked up for Jaunty Star RID. Again, especially his sport horse offspring should be something to watch
              ■2011 9th Prelim RH Spring
              ■2011 17th Prelim Ocala
              ■2011 4th CIC 1* FairHill
              ■2011 5th Prelim Cochrane
              ■2011 6th CIC 1* Rebecca Farms Event
              ■2011 2nd Pre limb Alhambra
              Epona Farm
              Irish Draughts and Irish Draught Sport horses

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              • #8
                Kyle Carter has been competing a Hanoverian stallion whose name escapes me.

                Wotan Von Wolkenstein II is the stallion. Running Prelim
                Last edited by ponygirl; Oct. 14, 2011, 02:10 PM. Reason: found it
                "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  RIDs

                  And why none made the list . . .

                  Let me start by saying that I am truly an RID fan; my girlfriend has a daughter of Foxglen Himself in training that is an absolutely fantastic horse. My focus here is on potential producers of 3* and 4* horses, however, and with that in mind, there are just not that many half-bred horses competing/having success at that level. I know about Lenamore and Paddy; but if you group that against the host of TB, TBx, IDSH, WBx stallions who are currently producing 3 and 4* horses, it is a small percentage. It is for the same reason that there are very few warmblood stallions listed who do not have a chunk of xx/ox somewhere back in their pedigree. The Remington XXV's of the world are similarly rare.

                  I know that this has been debated before and that it frustrates the RID supporters. I do not mean any offense, but based upon my review of the data a TB% well in excess of 50% is generally still needed to compete at those levels. I also believe that the purebred RID is an extremely valuable animal that should be preserved and promoted. Until shown otherwise, however, I think the value of the RID at the topmost levels of eventing is a generation removed -- as Cavalier Royale proved, an outstanding sire crossed on an IDSH mare can produce a worldbeater.

                  So, to be more precise, this list doesn't include any pure RID stallions due to my view that more xx/ox is needed in the sire line, even if somewhat removed, to create a greater percentage chance of the offspring being an upper-level horse. In that way, it does reflect my particular perspective on that issue. I would love to be proved wrong, however.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by not again View Post
                    He is a direct grandson of *Abundance, who sired Aachen, winner of the first Rolex competition in Kentucky as well as being USCTA (now USEA) horse of the year.
                    Is that the same Aachen that sired a number of 4* eventers in Australia (Ava, Belcam Aaberdeen, and Soul)? If so, I had not made that connection before.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you very much for compiling that list, Peregine.
                      A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Innkeeper?
                        Show me your horse and I will tell you who you are.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It is your list and I can see your point, but you're right it is frustrating.

                          I do hope as people see that full RID can do and place well up into 1* that if you add 50% TB you can get into the elite levels. But I think the big hurdle will be a preconceived idea of what that cross is capable of.

                          We've got a RID with an Olympian showing Ia in dressage and a few GP jumpers, so I will continue to beleive that they are more versitile and athletic than often given credit for (especially when given the very small # of irish horses in comparison to WB, TB etc) So, I too will continue to hope you will be proven wrong
                          Epona Farm
                          Irish Draughts and Irish Draught Sport horses

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                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            What has Innkeeper produced? I know he is well regarded, but haven't seen that any of his progeny have made it to the upper levels, at least recently.

                            I found one post discussing Innkeeper from four years ago that got a bit, um, testy, and it did not shed a lot of light on the subject. I don't want to revisit that discussion, but rather would like to know if any Innkeepers have moved through the levels.

                            I very well could be missing something, so if anyone knows please elaborate.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by horsetales View Post
                              I do hope as people see that full RID can do and place well up into 1* that if you add 50% TB you can get into the elite levels. But I think the big hurdle will be a preconceived idea of what that cross is capable of.
                              I am glad you did not take my post the wrong way; that is certainly a discussion that needs to be had, and continued.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Pregrine Farm,

                                Thank you for putting the list together. What a lot of work! And thank you for putting Bravo on the list.

                                Bravo has been doing quite well at Prelim and will be moving up to CCI* and Intermediate soon. Also, I am so excited that next year he will have four of his babies starting in the YEH classes! Beaujillais, Braunjo, Borasco, and Bravo's First Class! It will be so fun to see how they all do. 2012 will be an important year for Bravo.

                                I can't wait to see your Grafenstolz baby next year!
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by misita; Oct. 14, 2011, 07:45 PM.
                                Chris Misita
                                www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net Home of Bravo and Warrick!
                                To dare; progress comes at this price. All sublime conquests are, more or less, the rewards of daring.
                                Victor Hugo

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                                • #17
                                  Pardon my ignorance, but what is "RID"?
                                  I usually can figure it out, but this one has me stumped! LOL!

                                  BTW, love the list. Mainly a Dressage rider, but have done some LL eventing in my past lives! Always love to learn more..........

                                  3GM

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    RID is a Registered (inspected/approved) Irish Draught
                                    RIDSH/IDSH is Irish Draught Sport Horse (R=inspected/approved)
                                    Epona Farm
                                    Irish Draughts and Irish Draught Sport horses

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                                    • #19
                                      Thank you! I knew it would be something right under my nose.

                                      3GM~

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Peregrine Farm View Post
                                        I am glad you did not take my post the wrong way; that is certainly a discussion that needs to be had, and continued.
                                        Not at all. I like adult discussions

                                        Sure thing 3GM
                                        Epona Farm
                                        Irish Draughts and Irish Draught Sport horses

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