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Is she a pinto?

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  • Is she a pinto?

    I advertised a horse as a pinto (she is tobiano). Someone emailed me that she couldn't possibly be pinto because she has draft blood. Am I wrong? I did not say she was registered with the pinto registry and I know she is not eligible. She is obviously not a Paint, which is at first what I thought they meant since it seems many people don't know the difference. For 30+ years I've thought of pinto as a color pattern with variations, not a breed.

  • #2
    I would call a tobiano draft cross a pinto but what do I know? ;-) I suspect they are thinking of the registry which takes only certain blood lines....arab and something else. Pinto is a color pattern IMO so you were correct in saying that.

    I have appaloosa marked Colonial Spanish horses and I am correct in calling them appaloosas also regardless of the fact that most appaloosa colored horses are in a different registry than my own.

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    • #3
      You are correct. The people who told you she couldn't be a pinto are clueless. I am curious about her not being eligible for registry with the pinto association. I always thought that any horse with the required color could be registered with them. I didn't know that they excluded draft crosses. Does she have enough draft to be registered as a spotted draft?

      Edited to add - I just went to the PtHA website and while they say that appy, draft, and mule are not acceptable crosses, they also say that any mare or gelding with the proper color can be registered, stallions must have 2 registered parents of accepted breeds to be registered.
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      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by appaloosalady View Post
        You are correct. The people who told you she couldn't be a pinto are clueless. I am curious about her not being eligible for registry with the pinto association. I always thought that any horse with the required color could be registered with them. I didn't know that they excluded draft crosses. Does she have enough draft to be registered as a spotted draft?

        Edited to add - I just went to the PtHA website and while they say that appy, draft, and mule are not acceptable crosses, they also say that any mare or gelding with the proper color can be registered, stallions must have 2 registered parents of accepted breeds to be registered.
        I don't care about registering her.

        This person actually seems to want to argue the point back and forth but I'm done! S/he seems to think that if it isn't registrable with PtHA then is couldn't be a pinto.

        I just wanted a sanity check just in case I had been wrong all these years (it wouldn't be the first time)

        Thanks!

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        • #5
          I had a gelding I wanted to register as a pinto but I couldn't because he had draft in him. They do not allow anything to be registered that has draft of any degree.
          http://community.webshots.com/album/559732377JSHWNb

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          • #6
            Oh, good gawd! Your horse is a pinto, lower-case, meaning "A horse with patchy markings of white and another color," per the current American Heritage Dictionary.

            She is not a Pinto, upper-case, meaning registered or registerable with the Pinto Horse Assn.
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            • #7
              Am I the only one who finds what the PtHA guidelines as contradictory?

              OP, you're correct. It's a color pattern.
              "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique

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              • #8
                For anyone who's interested.... http://www.ptha.org/registration.html

                The PtHA does not accept any horses with Appaloosa, draft or mule breeding and/or characteristics or known breeding within the previous four generations.

                Horse stallions cannot be registered unless BOTH parents are registered with PtHA or a PtHA approved outcross breed. Ponies and miniature stallions CAN be registered with undocumented parentage.

                All Pintos must meet the minimum color requirement to be eligible for regular registry. For white spots to be counted, it must have underlying pink skin and must be located in the qualifying zone as illustrated by the diagram below. This white can be cumulative (spots may be added together as long as they are all in the qualifying zone). If leg white starts below the qualifying line, but extends to or above it, then all connected white below the line will count.

                Horses must have at least 4 square inches of cumulative white in the qualifying zone.
                Ponies must have at least 3 square inches of cumulative white in the qualifying zone.
                Miniatures must have at least 2 square inches of cumulative white in the qualifying zone.

                Basically any mare or gelding meeting the color coat guidelines that is of any breeding except Appaloosa, draft, or mule with this breeding for 4 generations cannot be a registered with the PtHA. Stallions cannot be registered unless you know the parents.

                An owner must decide what TYPE classification is right for their Pinto.

                This is important because Pintos are exhibited and bred according to their type. Below are some basic guidelines for determining types. Types do not apply to miniatures.

                Hunter – Displays the carriage and conformation associated with predominantly Thoroughbred horse or Connemara or Welsh pony breeding.
                Pleasure – Displays the carriage and conformation associated with predominantly Arabian or Morgan horse or Welsh or Shetland pony breeding.
                Saddle – Gaited horse or pony displaying the carriage, animation and conformation of Saddlebred, Hackney or Tennessee Walking Horse or modern style Shetland pony breeding.
                Stock – Displays the carriage and conformation associated with the Quarter Horse or Shetland pony breeding.

                There are seperate registries for pinto horse with draft blood - American Spotted Draft is one of these.
                The essential joy of being with horses is that it brings us in contact with the rare elements of grace, beauty, spirit, and fire. ~Sharon Ralls Lemon

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                • #9
                  Pinto is the color pattern. In England, I believe they refer to the same as piebald/skewbald. I wonder how else the person expects you to describe the pattern? What word does she use?

                  pin·to /ˈpɪntoʊ, ˈpin-/ [pin-toh, peen-] adjective, noun, plural -tos.
                  –adjective
                  1. marked with spots of white and other colors; mottled; spotted: a pinto horse.
                  –noun
                  2. Western U.S. a pinto horse.


                  Wonder if the pinto bean has to be registered with the correct registry for her to call it a pinto bean?
                  Chris
                  Ladybug Hill--Hunters and Ponies
                  WWSD? (what would Suerte do?)

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                  • #10
                    Actually I think many people think of Pinto as a breed in the US. If you refer to a Paint horse in color then you say Tobiano, Overo, Tovero as far as colors not a Pinto. So perhaps it would be more correct to call the horse a Tobiano draft cross?
                    I can understand why the person was confused with you calling the horse a Pinto if they were thinking that the horse was regestered as such. But, it is being a bit picky on their part.
                    http://www.FreedomSporthorses.com
                    Standing the colored Thoroughbred stallions Regal Regalia, chestnut frame overo, and White Magic, cremello

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                    • #11
                      Horse is pinto. Small p. Not PtHA... (which is a dubiously useful registry, but useful to some folks,) eligible because of the draft... but pinto nonetheless.

                      Pinto (small p, but it's the first word of the sentence... ) is a color/marking. It can be overo, tobi, tovero and even REAL sabino. (not just the chrome lots of hunter folks like to say is sabino) Rabicano is a pinto pattern as well, though rarely expressed enough for folks to notice it and *call* it pinto.

                      Now, regionally, "spotted" horses are pinto in some areas. Spotted Saddle Horses, Spotted Drafts... but that's more like the difference between chestnut and sorrell.

                      Definitely pinto. It's a pattern. Your emailer is just plain wrong.

                      And just for a tangent... if you want to make the PtHA people's heads spin, try to register your tobiano marked Arab Crossbred SPORTHORSES...
                      InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                      Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pintopiaffe View Post

                        Pinto (small p, but it's the first word of the sentence... ) is a color/marking. It can be overo, tobi, tovero and even REAL sabino. (not just the chrome lots of hunter folks like to say is sabino)
                        Which is in fact sabino as well.
                        Rabicano is a pinto pattern as well, though rarely expressed enough for folks to notice it and *call* it pinto.
                        Ive never seen rabicano expressed to the point I would call it a pinto pattern. This is one of the most wildly expressed rabicanos I have ever seen. And he is not what I would call a pinto marking. I would call it a roan pattern, but not pinto because it doesnt create white patches or markings it just roans. http://www.grullablue.com/colors/roa...ano_sabino.jpg
                        Definitely pinto. It's a pattern. Your emailer is just plain wrong.
                        Yep agreed.
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