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To try again with different frozen semen or not? also anyone used Distelzar frozen?

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  • To try again with different frozen semen or not? also anyone used Distelzar frozen?

    Looking for some advice from the experienced breeders who have used frozen semen.

    I realized this year that it was time to breed my maiden Trakehner (Herzzauber x Arogno) mare who all the sudden is now 12 years old before it was too late. But I'm having bad luck with her not settling after 2 cycles. This is despite having good semen motility in the opinion of the (very experienced) repro vet, inseminating very close ovulation (within 2 hours both times) and having no apparent problems with my maiden mare. She has a bit of fluid but no apparent inflammation after insemination. Last time we put her on Regumate 5 days post insemination for 2 weeks and gave her 1 shot of oxytocin the next morning after insemination. A friend suggestion oxytocin for 24-48 hours every 6 hours or so post insemination for difficult mares. Any other advice?

    The big decision I have to make now is whether to go to a second choice stallion for fresh semen or try a different frozen semen stallion. I have recently heard of someone else breeding twice to the same frozen stallion as I did also without success, but that mare was a proven broodmare who had had frozen semen foals before. Has anyone had luck changing to another stallion but still frozen semen?

    I'm a newbie breeder and only planning to have at most a couple of foals in the end, so I really was hoping to breed to the best possible stallion I could manage financially. Looking to improve hind end angles and a bit stronger back from my dressage mare. She's a good mover, but a big straight through the hind leg angles and a bit hollow in the back.

    Lastly, anyone used Distelzar successfully? I love this stallion but the semen agent I called a while back to inquire didn't really have any idea of whether mares were catching with his frozen. So I opted for a stallion with more "proven" fertility but she didn't settle. Rats!

    Thanks a ton for the advice. (Breeding is so much more fun in theory...)

  • #2
    If you do decide to try fresh (and I would) then Ballzauber has semen like rocket fuel. The best my vet has seen this season. Darren is *totally* on the ball (ha ha ha) about collecting and shipping despite competing.
    Visit us on Facebook!


    • #3
      I have heard and experienced the same thing. We used full doses of good quality frozen semen (same stallion) on mare twice without success, then bred using fresh. She took no problem. The next year she took on one dose of frozen (albeit different stallion). Sometimes it doesn't seem to be in the cards even if the semen, ovulation and timing appears to be perfect.

      My thoughts are if she's a maiden mare and you've had her checked (no infections with good cystology) and you've tried twice with frozen, then give it another shot with fresh. Not all mares "like" frozen!

      Good luck!
      Jan Marquardt
      Walkabout Station - www.walkaboutstation.com


      • #4
        After many years (and wasted money) we finally have taken advice of our mentors in Germany... If it doesn't work the first time, switch stallions. It's most important to get them in foal and its starting to get late in year. I would go with proven fresh semen, try frozen again next year.

        Luckily I got all four of my girls in foal this year on one dose each... yikes.. unheard of for our operation! Good luck
        Imported from Germany, Assembled in Michigan
        Rare damline of 7 direct generations of Elite/States Premium Mares.


        • #5
          Amy I'd probably go for fresh at this point. Good luck!
          Tracy Geller
          Find me on Facebook!


          • Original Poster

            Thanks for the thoughts everyone. It doesn't help that I just found out the fresh semen stallion who I really liked as a backup, Halbgott, was apparently recently gelded! So I feel like I'm at square one. <big sigh>

            Ballzauber looks like a nice young stallion but I'm looking for something more proven since I'm not going to have many chances to breed my mare.

            Anyone know of proven dressage Trakehner stallions in the US/Canada who reliably produce good hind ends? Who might also still have nice fertile semen?

            Looking at Impressionist but can't find any videos of him on the internets.

            Anyone know what Huno produces?

            Feel free to PM!


            • #7
              Schiffon P*s* might be what you are looking for - his ATA picture doesn't do him any justice BTW - his foals, both here and in Germany, are very nice and score highly.
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              • Original Poster

                Sadly, found out Impressionist passed away earlier this year. Wow, I'm batting 1000 on this.


                • Original Poster

                  Thanks Molly! I'll check him out.


                  • #10
                    Impressionist is dead? Good grief, I had no idea. Condolences to Aqua Farms they've have had a rough year with their stallions to say the least. The mare I just bred to Ballzauber is an Impressionist/Graditz mare. She's very beautiful, very much a Trakehner.
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                    • #11
                      Link to Schiffon's webpage. I saw him in NC a few years back, very nice horse!

                      He does have some clips on youtube it seems.
                      Tracy Geller
                      Find me on Facebook!


                      • #12
                        There's one Distelzar bred in Quebec: http://www.kristalfarm.com/Dolce.html But it was couple of years ago. Just to say that at one point, some frozen from this stallion did indeed worked out
                        Les Écuries d'Automne, Québec, Canada
                        Visit EdA's Facebook page!


                        • #13
                          If your mare had fluid after breeding she definitely needed oxytocin to help her clear the uterus. We give most mares oxytocin after breeding to help them clear fluid and excess seminal fluid.

                          Although he doesn't have much performance behind him yet I would recommend considering Holster. He is currently being worked by a 13 year old young hunter rider until he goes off to an event trainer. Holster was ridden by a dressage rider at the last ATA Convention and I kid you not, I saw jaws drop when he was moving out in the arena. Fantastic mover. He has a very strong hind end, a good short-medium back and excellent legs. I've had two foals by him, both lovely, well conformed, with strong hind ends and backs not to mention fantastic personalities. They love to interact and learn super fast. Holster has excellent semen. My older mare took on the first cycle both times. We have bred her to some other stallions with more difficulty. I would be using him again if I didn't already have a good representation of Graditz blood in my program. Moreover, I'm keeping the colt intact for now.

                          I've seen many of the ATA stallions in person. I have bred to a variety of current ATA stallions including Fandango, Oskar, Blitz und Donner, Tanzeln, Holster, and now Kougar Von C but we won't see the results until 2012 provided my oldest mares cooperate. They are 20, have less than ideal uterine biopsy scores and are very hard to get in foal. Contact me if you would like to chat.
                          Altamont Sport Horses
                          Trakehners * Knabstruppers * Appaloosa Sport Horses
                          Home of stallions: Ambrosius af Asgard "Atlantis" & Hollywood Hot Spot
                          Birmingham, AL


                          • #14
                            You do not want to see any fluid. We do the oxy every six hours for at least 3 days. It is cheap insurance after all you spend to manage a mare for breeding with frozen. The fact that you see fluid after the fact shows that there is a problem that needs correcting. The post breeding management is very important with frozen as is the ability to really be able to see fluid on an ultrasound. Have you been using Distelzar for those inseminations? He is one of my favorites, I just don't know who has used him. I have had beginner's luck on several stallions but have also learned the hard way that some stallion's semen either doesn't work frozen or was not processed correctly. I hope his is not in that category because he is on my extremely short list. Schiffon would be a great choice too.



                            • Original Poster

                              Thanks for the comments and suggestions everyone. I'm going to switch for a fresh stallion.

                              I was asking about Distelzar because I wondered if switching to a different frozen stallion (like Distelzar) would be a reasonable thing to try. I have no idea about Distelzar's frozen fertility, which is why I was asking here. The semen agents I talked to did not have enough experience with him to say. The frozen semen I was using was Connery, which has apparently worked successfully with some mares, but not mine, which could just be bad luck, being a maiden, not enough oxytocin or what, I don't know.

                              My vet DID in fact do 1 or 2 oxytocin shots, but not for the longer every 6 hrs for 2-3 days you are talking about. That is good to know that continuing injections 2-3 days of oxytocin is recommended (Like Six Pound Farm suggested. Thanks Tracy. Wish I had pushed harder on that one for the last cycle.)

                              Spike, that Distelzar gelding is awesome, but I'm not sure because he is there in Canada is proof positive that he was bred here with frozen semen. He could have been imported, or and been from a mare imported while pregnant.


                              • #16
                                Amy, you can give the oxytocin yourself, especially if she stays home to be bred. I had mentioned it a few times to EV, and had the same response/dosing you did. So, I just took matters into my own hands and do it myself now. I have a whole bottle of oxytocin I will never use up, If you need to borrow some.

                                You only need give 1cc in the muscle. I use the insulin syringes, they hardly ever react to those, a mosquito bite is probably more stressful...and try to do a 6/12 schedule, give or take. It doesnt have to be exactly every 6 hrs, but as close as you can.
                                At this point, it can't hurt to try. Good, precise management has made the difference for me in the past, It may make the difference for your mare. The only think you'll be out is a little bit of sleep.
                                Tracy Geller
                                Find me on Facebook!


                                • #17
                                  Spike, that Distelzar gelding is awesome, but I'm not sure because he is there in Canada is proof positive that he was bred here with frozen semen. He could have been imported, or and been from a mare imported while pregnant.
                                  No I know the breeder, and this horse was bred by her, in Quebec, so has to have been via frozen semen. The mare was imported indeed, but several years before she was bred to Distelzar and foaled this colt. That mare is a very good broodmare on the other hand, and doesn't seem to have any problem at all to catch via frozen semen year after year.
                                  Les Écuries d'Automne, Québec, Canada
                                  Visit EdA's Facebook page!


                                  • Original Poster

                                    Spike, that is excellent news about that Distelzar being definitely from frozen! Hope for the future.

                                    Tracy, I'm definitely going to insist on this next one, even though it will be fresh. We do a lot of our own shots, so not worried about that.

                                    FYI, speaking of poorly processed frozen: One good bit of news I gleaned from calling semen agents is that Medingen has someone new doing the frozen semen processing now compared to prior years when it was awful and apparently even Hohenstein is getting a few mares in foal these days via frozen.