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Color people. :) How do you get that chestnut color and flaxen manes/tails?

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  • Color people. :) How do you get that chestnut color and flaxen manes/tails?

    I was just thinking of a beautiful WB stallion (can't remember his name, but stood here in AZ at Central AZ Riding Accademy. Anyway, he was a deep red/gold and the blondest mane and tail. I don't remember his babys, I wasn't into breeding back then (was a young teen), but still think of that boy.

    So, how do you get such a horse? I believe he was Swedish---but, could be way off.
    *Better to have loved than to have never loved at all.*
    ALWAYS Blessings NEVER losses.

  • #2
    My purely unscientific opinion, based only on my experiences and observation, is that it is passed on down the line genetically, just the way liver chestnut is.

    I used to own a Welsh stallion that was that very striking rich RED color with WHITE mane and tail -- it was really eye catching. (Nevermind that he was the meanest S.O.B. to ever live -- but that's another story for another day!!)
    Family Partners Welsh Ponies - Home of Section B Welsh stallion *Wedderlie Mardi Gras LOM/AOE http://www.welshponies.com
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    • #3
      I think the gene is recessive or might be one that only affects a certain color perhaps. I have a flaxen chestnut roan filly from a buckskin dun stallion and a bay roan overo mare. Figure that one out....obviously both carried the red gene recessively but neither have flaxen behind them in the close past. My stallion's dam was a palamino with a darkish mane..maybe a dunalino, his sire was a dun roan. The mare's sire was a mostly white medicine hat overo..bay base color...and her dam was a dark liver chestnut with a dark mane.

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      • Original Poster

        #4
        WOW...interesting Daydream! LOL

        FUNNY, because this stallion that I talked about in my first post, was on the meanish side. LOL I know of a filly who had a flaxen mane till she was 4--then it is the same color as her base coat.???????? She was a meanish horse--now very sweet? Could mean be in the mane? LOL just kidding.
        *Better to have loved than to have never loved at all.*
        ALWAYS Blessings NEVER losses.

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        • #5
          I have no idea but I've gotten two out of the same mare. A red chestnut tb mare bred to my solid bay Cleveland Bay stallion. He's thrown other chestnuts but only this mare's offspring have that flaxen mane/tail. Funny enough my stallion's dam was liver with flaxen mane/tail. But no other offspring have been like that. Luck of the draw!
          Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
          Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
          & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
          www.frostyoaks.com

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          • #6
            I was wondering the same thing.

            I have a two year old Selle Francais colt, my stallion prospect. When he was born he was a chesnut, granted, he has chrome, but he had a red mane and tail. Around 1 year of age, I began noticing white hairs in his mane. Now, at two years old, his mane is well on its way to be being flaxen, and his tail has flaxen underneath red. What would cause this?

            This is him a week or two agao (Awkward two year old stage)
            http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/h...l232008089.jpg

            Here is his sire:
            http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/h...cracker5-2.gif
            http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/h...2/Cracker3.jpg



            And his dam is a bay TB.
            Making Your Ambitions a Reality at Secret Ambition Stables.
            Quality Welsh Ponies and Welsh Crosses bred for sport
            Facebook Page.
            Section A and Section B Welsh Ponies at stud

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            • Original Poster

              #7
              He is cute.

              Was this stallion bred by Noelly? I saw a stallion that looked like him at a Swedish inspection here in AZ --a year ago? or 2 years ago?

              just curious.
              *Better to have loved than to have never loved at all.*
              ALWAYS Blessings NEVER losses.

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              • #8
                My colt's sire is Bas Blanc, and approved SF stallion. I beleive he is only approved SF. He was bred in France

                My Sir Bas Blanc was bred by UC Davis, who currently owns and stands Bas Blanc.

                He has such an exceptional temperment. Bas Blanc, Sir Bas Blanc, and my other Bas Blanc filly have been the most trainable horses I have ever worked around
                Making Your Ambitions a Reality at Secret Ambition Stables.
                Quality Welsh Ponies and Welsh Crosses bred for sport
                Facebook Page.
                Section A and Section B Welsh Ponies at stud

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                • #9
                  I got a flaxen chestnut filly out of two black parents. I have recently seen several other offspring of that stallion that are also chestnut with flaxen manes and tails, so he must pass that on.

                  My filly was also born with a red mane that has gotten much lighter as she's grown.
                  Attached Files

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                  • #10
                    I put a filly on the ground who was a light chestnut with flaxen mane and tail and her sire was gray, dam a classic bay. This filly's full brother is grey.

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                    • #11
                      I also have a yearling chestnut filly that was born chestnut, mane, tail and all. But she's coming in with quite a few pretty much white hairs in her mane and a little in her tail as well. Her sire was Feuertanzer, (I know he has at least one other flaxen foal), and she's out of a bay mare. This mare did abort twins at 9 months one time by a chestnut stallion and one of them had a snow white mane and tail, so maybe she carries something as well? It's really neat anyway, I can't wait to see how it changes over the next couple of years. Oh, and for the record she's the sweetest tempered baby ever.
                      www.freewebs.com/roppelstables

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                      • #12
                        We, too, have a Feuertanzer filly with a lighter mane. Her momma is a QH and probably carries the dun factor,although her own mane is a significantly darker shade of chestnut than her body.

                        I'm hoping the filly's mane/tail continue to lighten with age...
                        http://timberridgebreeding.tripod.co...target=tlx_new
                        CLIPclop Bodyclipping by Morgan
                        Serving North GA with high quality clips.
                        --> Just Press Start // '99 Oldenburg
                        --> Always The Optimist (reg. Simply Stylin) // '02 Thoroughbred

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                        • #13
                          Here another one by Feuertanzer!
                          My '07 colt is a liver chestnut w/flaxen mane and tail. He's also Rabicano. The dam was a dark bay.

                          http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-OAWPEK3J.jpg

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                          • #14
                            I have two 2 year old ponies with flaxen manes and tails.

                            Filly is by Smoke Tree Silver Dragon (sec. B palomino welsh) and out of a TB mare with almost flaxen mane and tail.

                            Colt (Gelding now ) is by a roan mare (color is red or bay roan and she is also by Smoke Tree Silver Dragon) and by a grey stallion.

                            I think they both were passed on from the palomino - but definately could be wrong. When they were babies they looked like twins!

                            http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u...cuteatFPBA.jpg

                            Filly is on the right and colt on the left. Filly has MUCH lighter mane now - braids kind of hide it some. Colts mane is almost white but his tail is darker with some red.
                            Visit my website @ http://hihorsefarm.tripod.com (PONIES!)
                            and
                            http://heidalaycavaliers.tripod.com (Cavalier King Charles Spaniels)

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                            • #15
                              My gray mare produced one chestnut gelding with lots of white and a lot of blonde.....that was a surprise to the owner! He was by Parabol.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                From: http://www.mustangs4us.com/Horse%20C...er_dapples.htm

                                Silver dapple does not effect Red pigment, but it dilutes a black or bay coat to look red. Silver can be carried by a red horse, who can then pass it on to offspring. The lighter Silver Bay horses are sometimes incorrectly identified as flaxen chestnuts. But the dark roots and darker face are diagnostic of black-based Silver.
                                And then there's the flaxen gene:

                                Fl = Flaxen mane & tail (fl = no flaxen mane & tail) works only on "ee" red based horses

                                Because both flaxen and chestnut (red) are recessive, they have no hidden color genes to pass on to their offspring. Therefore, all offspring of matings between two flaxen chestnuts are the same color: flaxen chestnut. In this way, it is possible for a breed to be color-specific, such as the Haflinger.

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                                • #17
                                  To me a lot of these pictures have been horses with just a lighter mane, when someone says flaxen to me, I think white not just lighter. Although that doesn't mean that they couldn't have the gene, but thats what I think of, not just lighter but white. Although it could be the pictures aren't really showing it the best either. And I know some are younger and their manes may get lighter with time!
                                  http://community.webshots.com/user/jenn52318

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                                  • #18
                                    here are a couple of different genes that cause that, I think. As someone posted, there's silver dapple, which causes sort of a chocolate with white mane and tail. Then there's flaxen, which doesn't dilute body color at all but on a chestnut makes the mane and tail white. I think the pangara also makes white manes and tails on chestnut, but I might be wrong about that one (that's the mealy gene, that causes light belly and muzzle, like a fjord or many haflingers).

                                    Since black horses aren't necessarily homozygous (black is dominant, so a black horse can have one chestnut and one black gene, and be black) there's no reason a black stallion couldn't be carrying chestnut and flaxen. Not silver dapple, though, as that would show on the black (a chestnut can carry silver dapple).

                                    Remember that all horses have genes they show (phenotype) and genes they don't. Some genes can be "hidden" in black horses, some genes can be "hidden" in red horses. There are still plenty of surprises to be had.

                                    And there are many color genes that haven't been isolated yet, and variations in color that are poorly understood (like the variation in bay color, smutty color, metallic sheen, dappling, etc).
                                    Last edited by Ambrey; May. 5, 2008, 11:56 AM. Reason: fingers too fast for brain

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                                    • #19
                                      We have a yearling that has the flaxen mane and tail, out of a bay mare. His daddy was grey.
                                      His older 1/2 brother is bay and had a chestnut sire.
                                      Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver Equine Insurance Specialist

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by VirginiaBred View Post
                                        We have a yearling that has the flaxen mane and tail, out of a bay mare. His daddy was grey.
                                        His older 1/2 brother is bay and had a chestnut sire.
                                        Bay is black with an extra gene (agouti) which only "shows" on black, so like a black horse it can be "hiding" chestnut/flaxen genes.

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