• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Who are the 'new' classic dressage sires?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Who are the 'new' classic dressage sires?

    I began to wonder who the 'new' classic sires will be with the passing of so many great ones recently.

    (Weltmeyer, Wolkenstein II, Rhodiamont, and Espri... )

    Thoughts on who can/wiill become the new 'classics'?
    Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

  • #2
    My opinion only, but I would say Deniro, Don Schufro, Fuerst Heinrich (but already deceased so not sure he counts?), Londonderry.

    For younger but I think will be up there someday? Belissimo M, Hotline, Romanov, possibly Fidertanz.
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

    Comment


    • #3
      Sandro Hit has made a huge impact -- would have to be considered as a giant. It will be interesting to see what impact Totilas will have.
      PennyG

      Comment


      • #4
        Not sure I agree with all the stallions already listed. Several have no offspring at GP yet but are plenty old enough to have them.

        I'd put Don Schuffro at the top of the list.
        Breitling W is up there too.
        You can't forget Jazz, number 1 in the world for several years now.
        Come Back II is a relatively young stallion to be in the top 10 dressage sires with the FEI. He is a fabulous stallion who jumps as well as he moves.
        I'd also put some of the Trakehner boys in this list. Hohenstein, Silvermoon, Caprimond, Buddenbrock. I think Le Rouge will be a major producer of GP horses in the future too.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'll just throw in my .02 cents worth -
          There are tiers to breeding for dressage now (IMHO). The in hand youngsters seem to have their own list of 'hot' sires. Then there are the sires that produce the FEI Young Horses. Then the stallions that make mid-level stars (3rd-PSG). Then there is a different list for siring PSG on up...

          It is very rare to see a horse that shines in sport from the beginning to the top even at a regional level, let alone national or international.

          *flame suit zipped up*

          With some of the stallions (DeNiro, Don Schufro for example) you get the ability but can fall a bit short on the 'looks' department...and vice versa with other stallions that put on 'the pretty factor' but don't seem to deliver Grand Prix offspring.

          So I guess what I'm trying to say is - what are you breeding for? Or who is your target market?

          ETA: I would not put Espri in the list of stallions for Dressage. JMHO.
          Watermark Farm
          Blog
          Watermark Farm Facebook Fan Page
          You Tube Channel

          Comment


          • #6
            2010 WBFSH dressage stallion rankings. Deceased stallions are in red text.

            First number is the ranking, followed by the stallion's name, then the total number of points won by his offspring, then the number of offspring contributing to the total points.

            1 JAZZ - 13045 - 17
            2 DONNERHALL - 9863 - 13
            3 ROHDIAMANT - 9386 - 10

            4 MICHELLINO - 8857 - 11
            5 DE NIRO - - 8724 - 10
            6 GRIBALDI - 8565- 8
            7 WELTMEYER - 7523 - 6

            8 FLORESTAN I - 6869 - 10
            9 WELT HIT II - 6148 - 7
            10 FERRO - 5920 - 7
            11 RUBINSTEIN I - 5837 - 7

            12 SOLOS CAREX - 5829 - 5
            13 COME BACK II - 5131 - 6
            14 CONTANGO - 4614 - 5

            I believe Florestan is still alive, but pensioned (no longer breeding).

            Comment


            • #7
              And the WBFSH rankings for dressage horses reveal that the following stallions have at least four offspring in the top 469 places. The currently published rankings cover 10/1/2010 through 5/31/2011.

              Again, deceased stallions are in red text.

              Jazz – 19 offspring
              Florestan I – 15 offspring
              Michellino - 12 offspring
              Gribaldi – 10 offspring
              Ferro – 9 offspring
              Rohdiamant - 9 offspring
              De Niro – 7 offspring
              Donnerhall - 7 offspring
              Wolkenstein II - 6 offspring
              Flemmingh – 5 offspring
              Rubinstein I - 5 offspring
              Welt Hit II – 5 offspring
              Breitling – 4 offspring
              Come Back II – 4 offspring
              Don Schufro – 4 offspring
              Fidermark – 4 offspring
              Sandro Hit – 4 offspring

              I didn't notice any other stallions with more than 3 offspring on the ranking list (Weltmeyer only had 3 offspring on the list).
              Last edited by DownYonder; Jul. 2, 2011, 04:01 PM. Reason: corrections

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Looky there... Sandro Hit shows up with 4 offspring. What is the dam line on those 4?

                For that matter, would it be too hard to get the damline on all of the horses for each sire? ( that could be a new thread)

                I'm surpelrised Rhodiamont doesn't show up.
                Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

                Comment


                • #9
                  Down Yonder, do those sires represent grand prix offspring, or any FEI level, including young horse tests?
                  Anne
                  -------
                  "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by back in the saddle View Post
                    Looky there... Sandro Hit shows up with 4 offspring. What is the dam line on those 4?

                    For that matter, would it be too hard to get the damline on all of the horses for each sire? ( that could be a new thread)

                    I'm surpelrised Rhodiamont doesn't show up.
                    Oops, you are right about Rohdiamant! When I first started counting, I was going to ignore the recently deceased ones since your OP was about the NEW classic sires. I will revise my list to include Weltmeyer, Rohdiamant, etc.

                    Damsires for the Sandro Hit offspring - Contender, Temple Wind, Donnerhall, Houston.

                    I will look at damsires for the others later...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by not again View Post
                      Down Yonder, do those sires represent grand prix offspring, or any FEI level, including young horse tests?
                      I'm not sure - will try to find that info later. Maybe someone else on this forum knows....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm curious as to whether a sire has to have multiple offspring on the list to be considered....
                        Anne
                        -------
                        "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by not again View Post
                          I'm curious as to whether a sire has to have multiple offspring on the list to be considered....
                          Quick answer before I head out to the barn - no, I saw some stallions represented by only one offspring on the dressage horse ranking list - e.g., Diamond Hit, Castro, Don Davidoff.

                          http://www.wbfsh.org/files/Dressage_...ankings_03.pdf

                          As for whether Y/H tests are considered when determining points - probably not, as Sandro Hit would have far more than just 4 offspring on the list.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I just revised my previous list to include Donnerhall and Rubinstein I - since we are including deceased stallions on the list.

                            And of particular interest to NA breeders - Wolkentanz II is represented on the WBFSH list by two offspring.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Where's Hohenstein? I'm surprised he gets so many rave reviews but isn't included. ??? (I have another two weeks to figure out who gets to leave the semen tank which is why I'm interested)
                              Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by back in the saddle View Post
                                Where's Hohenstein? I'm surprised he gets so many rave reviews but isn't included. ??? (I have another two weeks to figure out who gets to leave the semen tank which is why I'm interested)
                                There are only two Hohenstein offspring on the current WBFSH list. I was focusing my search on stallions who were represented by at least 4 offspring.

                                And we have to take these stats with a grain of salt. For instance, some stallions may have been actively competing and not as available for breeding as others (case in point, Don Schufro, Michellino, Solos Carex, Breitling). Also consider the age of the stallions - the older sires have had many more foal crops than the youngsters. (I think I will go back and revise my list to add the YOB for each stallion.)

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Good point.
                                  Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Revised list to add the stallion's YOB. Again, these are the stallions with at least four offspring in the top 469 places of the WBFSH rankings for dressage horses. The currently published rankings cover 10/1/2010 through 5/31/2011.

                                    Deceased stallions are in red text.

                                    Jazz (1991) – 19 offspring
                                    Florestan I (1986) – 15 offspring
                                    Michellino (1991) - 12 offspring
                                    Gribaldi (1993) – 10 offspring
                                    Ferro (1987) – 9 offspring
                                    Rohdiamant (1990) - 9 offspring
                                    De Niro (1993) – 7 offspring
                                    Donnerhall (1981) - 7 offspring
                                    Wolkenstein II (1990) - 6 offspring
                                    Flemmingh (1987) – 5 offspring
                                    Rubinstein I (1986) - 5 offspring
                                    Welt Hit II (1992) – 5 offspring
                                    Breitling W (1991) – 4 offspring
                                    Come Back II (1992) – 4 offspring
                                    Don Schufro (1993) – 4 offspring
                                    Fidermark (1992) – 4 offspring
                                    Sandro Hit (1993) – 4 offspring

                                    Youngest stallions on my list are 18 y/o this year. So is it safe to say it takes about that long for a stallion to show up in the top ranks for producing internationally successful offspring?

                                    And I hadn’t realized this before – Gribaldi, De Niro, Don Schufro, and Sandro Hit were all born the same year. What a year that was for colts!

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Thanks for putting these lists together!

                                      As far as Hohenstein.. he's also a 1991. Does lack of top horses mean he's a poor producer? Or is bad semen quality keeping the number of offspring down?

                                      As to the number of top quality stallions coming from 1991 birth years.... would there be any coorelation between the people involved with the approval process when the stallions were approved?
                                      Last edited by back in the saddle; Jul. 2, 2011, 06:15 PM.
                                      Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        The human factor seems like it could be a factor in some of this.
                                        Is there a way to find which trainer/training barn were responsible for the horse that"makes it?" is there a top trainer/trainers responsible for more than one of the success stories?
                                        Peg
                                        Fleur de Lis Hanoverians

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X