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DISCUSSION ON -- buyers are going to come to Moven Park!

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  • DISCUSSION ON -- buyers are going to come to Moven Park!

    And all I can say is, for those of you who will be there, be on your best behaviour.

    It's so very very sad. Two very very nice people in my barn last night were discouraged because they want warmbloods. Well, big surprise... everyone else here in the Twilight Zone has TBs. Not that there is anything wrong with Thoroughbreds. It's just a dream that both of them had.

    BUT, when they went looking (and traveling all over *sigh*) all they found was $30K+ horses, that weren't sound. Frustration ruled, until I told them of the *wonders* that awaited them at the breed shows.

    Now, regardless of whether you are pro or con the breed shows (BS)--and I am speaking of the dressage BS here--this is an opportunity for BUYERS to MEET breeders. This can only be a good thing. Plus, if they have a positive experience, you KNOW they're going to go back and blab.

    So! They may not find what they're looking for. But at least they'll be there.

    Oh, and one more thing, before I forget.

    Question for you breeders with decent acreage. If a client bought a baby from you, say right around $7K-$8K would you keep that baby on your farm for a nomial monthly fee - say, $75? Yes, the client would be obligated to pay all vet and farrier bills. But would you do it? Have you done it? For how long, etc.
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders
  • Original Poster

    #2
    And all I can say is, for those of you who will be there, be on your best behaviour.

    It's so very very sad. Two very very nice people in my barn last night were discouraged because they want warmbloods. Well, big surprise... everyone else here in the Twilight Zone has TBs. Not that there is anything wrong with Thoroughbreds. It's just a dream that both of them had.

    BUT, when they went looking (and traveling all over *sigh*) all they found was $30K+ horses, that weren't sound. Frustration ruled, until I told them of the *wonders* that awaited them at the breed shows.

    Now, regardless of whether you are pro or con the breed shows (BS)--and I am speaking of the dressage BS here--this is an opportunity for BUYERS to MEET breeders. This can only be a good thing. Plus, if they have a positive experience, you KNOW they're going to go back and blab.

    So! They may not find what they're looking for. But at least they'll be there.

    Oh, and one more thing, before I forget.

    Question for you breeders with decent acreage. If a client bought a baby from you, say right around $7K-$8K would you keep that baby on your farm for a nomial monthly fee - say, $75? Yes, the client would be obligated to pay all vet and farrier bills. But would you do it? Have you done it? For how long, etc.
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

    Comment


    • #3
      We have kept young horses for buyers before, but really could not do it for $75 a month. Our expenses run higher than that for an older horse, and even for a baby that is cutting bare feed and housing pretty close. Babies are care intensive, need handling and basic "seeing the world" kind of activities. And if the horse is already sold, keeping it is technically board, which means we need to add CC&C coverage on to our insurance policy.

      On the other hand, we are on site 96% of the time, which is important for little ones. And they get daily handling and training. Our herd is fixed, so there is no moving of horses in and out. And board is generally cheaper with us than it would be at a facility the buyer would have access to.
      Trakehner Treffpunkt & Tannenwald Trakehner
      Breeders & Friends of American Trakehners - European Engineering, Made in America!
      AND ... Breeding-Stallions.com

      Comment


      • #4
        I have and will keep babies/yearlings for no charge. I only charge vet and farrier costs. It has worked out well and I love having the babies a little longer.

        I do have a contract and decide with the buyer when the horse will leave.
        As is our confidence, so is our capacity. ~W. Hazlitt

        Gift Hill Farm

        Comment


        • #5
          I can easily feed 75 bucks worth of hay a month in the winter to one young horse, before he eats the first mouthful of grain. It might even out over the summer on a cost basis - but my time would not be compensated for in any way.

          Tannenwald has a VERY, very good point about Care Custody and Control coverage. My insurance coverage would go through the roof if I had horses on the farm that were not my own.

          But if it came right down to it? I would seriously consider it for maybe 100 per month. Depending on the insurance costs. (Sigh) And I said I'd never board another horse for the rest of this lifetime - and probably the next.

          Never say never I suppose.
          "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Well, this is what I'm thinking.

            $100 per month, is better than 570 per month. Which is what local board is. Hmmmmm. Think about THAT one.

            So, if you purchase a weanling, say at 6 months, EXCLUDING VET & FARRIER, and you, the breeder, can keep the child for another 2.5 years, the client has still spent only 10K And guess what? It's all with YOU. Plus, he/she has a good horse to start. He/she knows how its been raised, carefully, considerately etc.

            $10K for a 3 year old. Or even $10,600 for a 3.5 year old, with the kind of breeding I've seen you guys produce, actually, is VERY good value for money.

            You folks might want to think about it.

            And excuse me, isn't ANYONE going to say

            "Well Done OMom!" I mean for bringing buyers to the show.
            "For God hates utterly
            The bray of bragging tongues."
            Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, hopefully they have good luck! There are some nice WB breeders in that area. (unfortuantely I am not

              Yes, my price for WB foal (one now is $8500) includes "everything" until weaned except insurance on foal. This has worked well for me in the past. I charge $150 full board with worming for yearlings bought here.

              Sincerely Linda
              www.walnut-farm.com

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Linda,

                What state?

                I find it makes a LOT of difference. e.g., a friend in VA would only charge $75 ... but her guys are out 24/7, year round. No blankets. It's called, "winter coat." She only brings 'em in for lightning and hurricanes.

                Seems to work for her ... and her clients.
                "For God hates utterly
                The bray of bragging tongues."
                Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Oh, and plus, even if you pay $10k ... you're still talking about only $2600 until they're ready to "go to work" ... ok, not grand prix. But (depending on temperament) it also can't be worse than getting a "fresh" OTTB.

                  From a buyers' perspective, hey, it's STILL a good deal.
                  "For God hates utterly
                  The bray of bragging tongues."
                  Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oldenburg Mom- As a potential buyer, Id be more inclined to buy repeatedly from someone who did this.
                    "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am in Ohio.

                      and....good job for doing this! We small breeders need all the help we can get!

                      Linda
                      www.walnut-farm.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was able to buy my 18 month old and leave him with his breeder until he was 2. That way, I got him when he was old enough to play with (ground driving, trail riding at 2 1/2). Granted, he was a pony not a WB, so I didn't have to wait as long to get on him. But it was great for the breeder and great for me.

                        I think, to get around the CCC insurance thing, I paid for his board up front with my purchase, and was not listed on sales contract as board. Which meant she really kept him for free........I suppose she still should have had the insurance, but at least she wasn't making money from it the way tax people would look at it.
                        Beth Davidson
                        Black Dog Farm Connemaras & Sport Horses
                        http://blackdogconnemara.com
                        visit my blog: http://ponyeventer.blogspot.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          i am along the lines with LW. I pay for everything exluding insurance up until the foal is 5 months old. i could keep a youngster for around 150 a month which includes worming. Owner would be responsible for farrier costs and vet costs. I feed buckeye feed. i have a nice ducth colt i have priced very very resonable. maybe if the buyers would like to come east they can come see my colt and Lw's babies at the same time . she is in ohio and i am in michigan, and i could show them another at the same time.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            We've done reduced board for a while while horses grow up...have to agree though...couldn't do it for $75 but could CERTAINLY do it for less than the $570 board rate where you are

                            I'm curious where your buyers were looking...I know many nice going horses in the Pacific NW, under 30K and totally sound...heck...I've got 4 here right now and countless others with people I know. I must agree though...for great concentrations of them...breed shows are it.
                            Andrea Clibborn-Anderson
                            www.crestlinefarm.com
                            Home of Pinto Dutch Warmblood Palladio

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Good goin' OM!!! Are you meeting the buyers there to show them around? Is that a show that notes "For Sale" horses by an asterick in the program?

                              About the boarding-- I'm currently boarding a full sized horse for $75 per month. I may actually be losing money, but, it was a mare that I sold inexpensively because I wanted to keep the foal she was carrying. My other choices were to sell her in foal, or to sell her either open or re-bred after she foaled. This worked for me... I sold Bali around Christmas time, about 5 months in foal, with the understanding that she stays here till the foal is weaned. The buyer pays the board, I pay all foal related expenses and assist with the re-breeding of the mare and transport to repro facility.

                              Now, my insurance and facility size doesn't allow for boarding per se, but I always tell buyers about a great lady that I know, with 10 acre pastures, who boards for $125 per month. I think it's a good idea to know who does board, and provide those referrals for your foal buyers-- kind of like the "foal rearers" of Germany.
                              Jill
                              www.eurofoal.homestead.com
                              European bloodlines made in America

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crestline:

                                I'm curious where your buyers were looking...I know many nice going horses in the Pacific NW, under 30K and totally sound...heck <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Well, this is one of the points I made. Look, I have to say it. You breeders know where ALL the bodies are buried. You know the inside poop on this horse, that horse, etc. etc.

                                And I would be willing to bet that you know WHO bred them, HOW GOOD the breeder is, how well and carefully the baby's been raised, whether it's been backed/longed/wormed/etc. since birth. You know the temperament, the Mama, the Daddy. THIS is the information that's important when buying.

                                It's making the connection that's important. And I think one of the (obviously) great places to meet all the breeders is ... NEWSFLASH!! Breed shows.

                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Eurofoal
                                Are you meeting the buyers there to show them around? Is that a show that notes "For Sale" horses by an asterisk in the program?
                                <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                Probably meeting them there. I'll walk them around then let them make their own way. You breeders are a gregarious lot, so I'm sure you'll have lots to say. And the show itself is really, quite fascinating. They are not "clients" of mine. I am not making any $$$ on this. It is not my obligation to make sure they find something.

                                What I DID say to them, and what I believe, quite fervently, is that excellent/marvelous horses are being bred in this country, for reasonable prices (think good value for money) You just need to find each other ...
                                "For God hates utterly
                                The bray of bragging tongues."
                                Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Well, I can confirm that OM is right on about the prices around here, I've seen lots of very unsound,very expensive TBs.

                                  OM has preached the joys of foals to me & I'm close to being a convert. I can't make it to Morven but am hoping to make it to a breed show in the next month or two. And I learned all about them from her & this board.

                                  I'm one of those that would be very interested in leaving a baby on the farm for a while before bringing him up here. I can't justify the cost of board up here (& OM - $595 - that's a bargin. I think most places are $800 with almost no turn out that I've seen )

                                  What type of insurance would breeders need? And would you prefer to have board costs paid up front? Oh & honestly, while we're educating ignorant me - what type of buyer do you look for with one of your babies? And what type of ?s should a buyer be asking you? And what type of vet/farrier costs does one have on average with a foal (ignoring emergencies of course). Sorry for so many ?s, the world of babies is new to me.

                                  But as OM said, many AAs are being priced right out of the market. And the breeders are there with great horses & reasonable prices. All we need to do is find a way to get them together!
                                  Visit us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/ranchopampa or our website at www.ranchopampa.com

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Look - as far as the cost of keeping a baby for a client who has purchased one - it depends upon each situation. $300, $50 $700 $100. It doesn't matter how much, as long as the breeder and client agree.

                                    Just be careful. There's a biiiiig difference between buying a 3-3.5 year old at around $10,000. and $14,500 (for example-that's $250 per month board.)

                                    Again, it's not my problem. I negotiate my own deals with my partners, and so far (knock on wood) we've all worked any issues out very well indeed.

                                    I'm just trying to say to you breeders out there--especially ones that are having a hard time selling -- think of alternatives. Think out of the box. Try something new and different. Work with the riders and buyers. Together, buyers and breeders, something wonderful can be built: outstanding WBs, home-cooked, right here in the good ol' US of A!!

                                    I really loff alll you guys!
                                    "For God hates utterly
                                    The bray of bragging tongues."
                                    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> NYCJumper

                                      OM has preached the joys of foals to me & I'm close to being a convert. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Hey, I'm really not preaching. I'm just trying to open some eyes. But deeeeeee-lighted you're thinking about joining the <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>TBP: The Baby Party! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Teeeeheeee. You'll NEVER look back!
                                      "For God hates utterly
                                      The bray of bragging tongues."
                                      Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ahf:
                                        I can easily feed 75 bucks worth of hay a month in the winter to one young horse, before he eats the first mouthful of grain. It might even out over the summer on a cost basis - but my time would not be compensated for in any way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Well, again, everyone has to find their own way.

                                        I look at it this way. Would you rather sell a baby for $7K or $8K and have someone pay you $75 or $100 a month for board. Or would you rather try and sell the baby, backed only, at 3.5 years old.

                                        Hmmmmmmmmm. Let me think. I'll take selling ANYDAY over not selling. Two reasons. One, it means my name is going to get out there. Two, it means I can breed another.

                                        Now this assumes you have problems selling babies. If you don't BRAVO-BRAVISSIMO! You don't need a situation like this.

                                        I'm not being critical. I'm just trying to help you guys, because I believe in your product.
                                        "For God hates utterly
                                        The bray of bragging tongues."
                                        Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                                        Comment

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