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TB Stallion- value as a sport horse stallion or geld?

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  • TB Stallion- value as a sport horse stallion or geld?


    Auto Pilot is a super lovely 16.3 h 10 yr stallion who was found at a slaughter auction and was luckily saved. I offered to evalute him as a riding horse for his group of dedicated rescuers.

    Right now they are just trying to figure out what the best option is for him. He has been a breeding stallion so being around other horses in close proximity brings out the bellowing and stallion behavior. Once he figures out he isn't breeding anybody then he is quite relaxed. He is super to handle with great manners and a puppy dog type of personality.

    He has been very good to ride and seems to be sound with lovely bone and good feet.

    They are very open to gelding him but believe that his behavior might not change and he will need to be placed with someone who had facilities to handle a stallion/former stallion. It may be easier to place him with someone who has interest in breeding him?

    Would you just go ahead and geld and look for someone who was open to taking a former breeding stallion or try to place him as a stallion?

    He is a cutie

  • #2
    If he is sound enough to ride, I would opt for gelding him. I don't see the sporthorse breeders flocking to him. The testosterone will come down and he might be able to eventually go out in company. He is really not one that I would consider keeping as a breeding stallion. JMHO!


    • #3
      As someone who is always actively looking for quality TB stallions, I personally wouldn't look at him twice. He is not what I would consider stallion material.

      Geld him and enjoy him IMHO.


      • #4
        Those boys need thrown on the roof as quickly as you can dial the vet's number. He definitely has no need for them! Best of luck finding him a great home.
        McDowell Racing Stables

        Home Away From Home


        • Original Poster

          I am sure they will be very careful to make sure whoever adopts him will be qualified to handle a former stallion.

          How long does it typically take for the hormones to settle? I suppose my thinking was that it may be difficult to place him unless you can show that he can be turned out with other horses.


          • #6
            The testosterone levels will lower by about 30 days. As you said, much of the breeding behavior is learned so that may never go away. Most of them end up being able to be turned out with other horses relatively quickly. Introduce them one at a time over the fenceline and see how it goes.
            McDowell Racing Stables

            Home Away From Home


            • #7
              Regardless of whether he is good stallion material he is from a super cool mare line-mocassin/rough shod etc.

              He is from the same family as Storny Atlantiic (out of a 1/2 sister to his dam) and Aluvial (http://www.hillndalefarms.com/stalli...tlantic2.shtml)

              Santa Anita Oaks (gr. I) winner Hail Atlantis (by Seattle Slew) ( maternal sister to Gear) has also produced stakes winner Mr. Katowice and stakes-placed Divine Dixie, dam of Toyota Blue Grass S. (gr. I) winner and promising young sire Bandini.

              The econd dam is "multiple stakes winner Flippers, a half sister to English and Irish champion two-year-old Apalachee – also a successful sire. This is the sire-producing 5-h family of Moccasin and Rough Shod II, from which Sadler's Wells, Nureyev, Fairy King, Topsider, Numerous, and Jade Robbery descend."

              Short write up on him:
              From Bloodhorse
              "Stallion Video: Auto Pilot
              Updated: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:59 AM
              Posted: Friday, February 15, 2008 9:40 AM

              AUTO PILOT

              A maiden special weight and allowance winner, Auto Pilot is by Kingmambo out of a Danzig half sister to Kentucky Oaks (gr. I) heroine Hail Atlantis (herself dam of successful sire Stormy Atlantic). His third dam is Horse of the Year Moccasin, a sister to Thong, ancestress of Sadler’s Wells and of Nureyev (who appears in the top half of the pedigree, as the broodmare sire of Kingmambo).

              Auto Pilot’s foals will have Northern Dancer 5 x 4 through their sire, which will allow further injections of Northern Dancer. Sadler’s Wells is one particularly obvious strain, and breeding back to a son of Danzig could be interesting. Nijinsky II is another Northern Dancer line which is good with Kingmambo. The cross of Kingmambo over Seattle Slew mares has been very good, including champion Lemon Drop Kid. The cross of mares by His Majesty, particularly through Pleasant Colony, has done well, as has the strain of His Majesty’s sire, Ribot, through Hoist the Flag. Based on his Kingmambo male line, we look for positive crosses with Never Bend through Riverman and Mill Reef, as well as with Majestic Light and Private Account. - by Alan Porter"

              Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...#ixzz1Q12d1HwW

              Another link (he does look a little over at the knee in this photo - not sure if that is the photo--leg injury or conformaion ...) http://www.sparksviewfarm.com/autopilot.htm

              I think if someone really believed in the horse and he was conformationally and termpermentally correct-he might make a decent sporthorse sire. but it would be a labor of love and a a lot of responsibllity. Of course he also may make an even better sporthorse than breeding stallion. The economy is a awful right now.

              link added to his sire
              Last edited by omare; Jun. 23, 2011, 04:14 PM. Reason: too add link to his pensioned sire


              • #8
                He has a gold plated and then some racing pedigree. Any idea why he was in the auction? From the looks of things, he also didn't have much opportunity as a stallion, and his first crop would only be two years olds this year if PQ is correct. So no one knows if he would be a racing sire or not.

                I'd say that his pedigree has far more value in racing than in sport, although I have to say that the dam side failed in his dam and granddam. Things to notice. Lots and lots of Native Dancer; double to Rough Shod through Thong and Moccasin. Bottom side is far more proven in sport than the top side, but that could be because the top side is so good for racing that it hasn't made it over yet.

                Even with the pedigree (any idea why no one tried to place him in a regional market?), sport doesn't need him as a sire. Did look at the pictures. He ain't pretty. As Chamberlin might say, he's a trotting type up front and a galloper out back. I wonder how many vertebrae he has in his spine?
                Last edited by vineyridge; Jun. 22, 2011, 01:57 PM.
                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                Thread killer Extraordinaire


                • #9
                  Conformation correct? Not him. I would geld him and see if he would make a riding horse or a hunter - with more weight on him. Even with more weight, you're not going to fix that shoulder.
                  Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
                  Now apparently completely invisible!


                  • #10
                    Did you guys even look at the pictures? I don't care if he is by Jesus, the nuts need to go.
                    McDowell Racing Stables

                    Home Away From Home


                    • #11
                      I did and I agree!
                      Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
                      Now apparently completely invisible!


                      • #12
                        Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

                        The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”


                        • #13
                          Even with his current condition (and I like to tell myself that I'm a good judge of out of shape horses), he is not anything that would really appeal to a sport market. his shoulder and front legs alone would rule him out for me as a breeding stallion.

                          Geld him, then turn him out with some bitchy mares...he'll quickly get that "stallion" behavior out of his system.


                          • #14
                            sorry i cant see the pictures posted


                            • #15
                              Not even the one you posted? He isn't quite as skinny in that pic but still looks like he was put together by a committee. That is seriously one of the worst shoulders I have ever seen and it doesn't get much better as you look at the rest of him. I think he will make a great gelding.
                              McDowell Racing Stables

                              Home Away From Home


                              • #16
                                yes I can see the one in the posted photo- as noted I thought he looked over at the knee--and he looks skinny --- I assume he has not matured to look like Storny Atlantic now.


                                • #17
                                  no interest in the pedigree as a sport horse breeder. Line bred to Raise A Native and through Mr.P at that over Northern D linebreeding. Linebred to RAN is not good for soundness and Mr.P/ND cross is a dime a dozen. The only part that is interesting is the Rough Shod on the very bottom.
                                  I dont like his shoulder, or his neck set or the Mr. P right foreleg.
                                  Providence Farm


                                  • #18
                                    More information on his sire Kingmambo





                                    • #19
                                      Poor fellow. I hope he finds a good home.


                                      • #20
                                        Geld him.