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Would you breed to a race horse TB to get a sport horse foal?

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  • Would you breed to a race horse TB to get a sport horse foal?

    Just curious.. as I have been doing a lot of research on TB's lately.. there are actually quite a number of nice race horse stallions with very nice bloodlines out there for less than 5K live foal..

    Would anyone consider breeding to a race horse TB stallion to get a Sport horse baby? I have found quite a few very cool bloodlines that I cant seem to find in the sport horse TB's...

    Thoughts?
    Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
    " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
    Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.

  • #2
    Absolutely. A lot of people have done it.
    http://www.tunnelsendfarm.com

    Comment


    • #3
      i have now done this 3 times. have a nice 3 yr.old colt by thats our buck and 2 yr.old by skip to the stone and a just turned yearling by diligence. all are very nice and the yearling is quite fancy and already 15.3 at the withers!and moves unbelievable. go for it, just research it.
      www.camaloufarms.com

      ride it like you stole it! "ralph hill"

      Comment


      • #4
        Of course.

        It's the logical thing to do if you see bloodlines that would make a great fit with one of your mares. How do you think the Germans find their TBs? Most of them are ex-racers.

        Want to let us in on what you are thinking? You've held out a box of candy; now open the danged thing.
        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
        Thread killer Extraordinaire

        Comment


        • #5
          ... well, not just any TB stallion - just because he was a racehorse does not mean he can move the way we want hunters or dressage horses to move, or can jump with talent or form. He needs to be built uphill and sound, good footed, kind, etc. Lots of them can, of course. Lots of info on these bloodlines here, courtesy people like Vimeyridge....our encyclopaedia.

          Can you see any of his offspring performing off the track?

          I was checking out a horse called Taylor, once, as he was a looker.
          I asked the stallion owner if he could move. "Mam," he said, "I guess he can move, he won over $xxx dollars." He had no idea what "movement" meant to a sport horse breeder.
          Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

          Comment


          • #6
            It's what I'm doing! I even get serious discounts to the stallions for AI if I tell them it's not for race and it wouldn't affect the stallion's JC reports.
            Originally posted by The Centaurian
            As far as I am concerned, leadline is a legitimate reason to have children.

            Comment


            • #7
              If I had an extra $50K lying around, I'd love to see what kind of sport horse Rock Hard Ten could produce. I saw him last year at an Open House during the Keeneland Sales in January and was thoroughly and completely impressed. Impressed enough to take pictures of him (and Fusaichi Pegasus - who was better looking when he first started stud duties, imho):
              Rock Hard Ten
              Rock Hard Ten's pedigree Not really thrilled with Mr. P so close, but I love Kris S

              The first conformation photo that Ashford Stud had of Fusaichi Pegasus made him look like a very sleek well-built dressage horse. Now he's ummmm...chubby: Fusaichi Pegasus

              EquineLVR, you now have us all wondering what stallion(s) has you interested.
              Erin
              Dodon Farm Training Center - on Facebook

              Comment


              • #8
                Yup. The problem is that most of the really nice looking TB stallions that were successful runners have stud fees out of the range of sporthorse land. For example, Not For Love has super looking foals. His fee is not so affordable though!!!
                Roanoke was a popular stallion here for ages for both race and sporthorse foals as his runners would win and he made nice sport babies too....for a 2500 stud fee.
                Providence Farm
                http://providencefarmpintos.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Foxtrot's View Post
                  ... well, not just any TB stallion - just because he was a racehorse does not mean he can move the way we want hunters or dressage horses to move, or can jump with talent or form. He needs to be built uphill and sound, good footed, kind, etc. Lots of them can, of course. Lots of info on these bloodlines here, courtesy people like Vimeyridge....our encyclopaedia.

                  Can you see any of his offspring performing off the track?

                  I was checking out a horse called Taylor, once, as he was a looker.
                  I asked the stallion owner if he could move. "Mam," he said, "I guess he can move, he won over $xxx dollars." He had no idea what "movement" meant to a sport horse breeder.
                  That is funny because it is so similar to one of my stories. I went to a race farm and looked at broodmares they had for sale. One Quadrangle mare came out. She was very hot, head up, eye rolled back in her head. Her turned her loose in a small ring/roundpen area. She moved short and quick. I shook my head and said no thank you. He wondered why. I said she is too hot and she moves short up front. He looked at me and said "but she can move those short strided legs real fast...she won 50K at the track!". He brought out another mare. This one was a doe eyed 17H mare that looked like a WB. Lovley soft mover. I loved her until he pulled out her papers. She was bred Pleasant Colony top and bottom and my stallion I was looking for a date for was also bred PC. Too much of a good thing for me pedigree wise!! I was disappointed as I loved the mare. He shook his head when I loved that one...said she has the speed of a cart horse and even outgrew the dang starting gate.
                  Providence Farm
                  http://providencefarmpintos.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oh yes! I've done that several times with good results. Had a colt by Beldale Ball (x Nashua and won the Melbourne Cup) who was a fabulous athlete and mover. I think it's a great idea if you research the bloodlines and find the right type and mover. I had the last colt by Greek Answer (Canadian Sprint Champion), have a filly by Strong Performance and my personal horse by Violado, both SW. I agree with Erin about Rock Hard Ten! I tried to send a mare to Alysheba but was a year too late. Also bred to Key To Content but she did not get in foal many years ago. Have several I would love to use!
                    PennyG

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sure... but it seems like an awfully expensive route to go. Especially for what may be an unproven sporthorse sire.

                      As someone who has worked in both sporthorse and racehorse breeding, I chuckle to myself how one minute I'm scoffing at a sporthorse stallion for having what I consider too high of a fee. Then the next minute I'm scoffing at a racehorse stallion with the same fee for being too low!
                      Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        (disclaimer! I AM NOT a breeder )

                        I'd love to breed a mare to Montjeu

                        http://www.coolmore.com/stallions/ireland/montjeu/

                        I really love the way he looks and his babies are built from the same mold. But with that stud fee, I'd have to win the lotto first!
                        Horse Show Names Free name website with over 6200 names. Want to add? PM me!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Spectacular Bid sired many sporthorses and more recently Top Account is worth a look.
                          If you wander over to the BloodHorse site and click on the Stallion Register and ask for stallions by price range you will find gems, many in regional markets with moderate (and negotiable) fees. If they are able to do AI and they know the foal will never be registered (and therefore not exist statistically) they may offer further discounts.
                          F O.B
                          Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
                          Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am trying to get a feel for what sporthorse breeders look for. From reading this thread and another one the other day...I am seeing Kris S alot but am confused is Seattle Slew a plus or a negative? I just brought home a Seattle Slew son out of a Kris S mare and my neighbor wants to breed to him after seeing him move in the round pen...I know NOTHING but want to learn when it comes to Sporthorse breeding. What other TB sires are good to see in a pedigree?

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Well there are a couple that I really like on paper but they dont have websites so they could be the ugliest things on the planet but here are a few that I like:

                              Behrens http://www.pedigreequery.com/behrens Pleasant Colony son.. 5k stud fee

                              Attack the Books http://www.pedigreequery.com/attack+the+books Notebook son 1k stud fee

                              Audited http://www.pedigreequery.com/audited He has a pic on there and looks very nice his fee is 1k

                              Battlevenue http://www.pedigreequery.com/battlevenue He has a pic too - looks nice but not the best pic and his fee is 1500

                              Big Lukey http://www.pedigreequery.com/battlevenue no pic - stud fee 1k

                              Boastful http://www.pedigreequery.com/boastful stud fee 1k


                              Bright Launch http://www.pedigreequery.com/bright+launch There is a pic - looks fairly nice - $3500 stud fee

                              Bull Market http://www.pedigreequery.com/bull+market4 Like him.. stud fee $3500 there is also a pic.

                              Just a few there are more.. maybe we are missing an opportunity here to find some nice guys..

                              Thoughts?
                              Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
                              " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
                              Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Behrens has a website, albeit a little lacking in info for a sporthorse breeder:

                                http://www.victoryrose.com/html/berhens.html

                                I've seen him in person and he is very handsome. I used to dream of breeding to him for a horse to race then show for myself. But his offspring have failed to make much of a splash on the track and off he went to Cali... where he's not really doing much better.

                                I expect his fee to come down further in the coming years. Although a colt from the same family will be starting in the Kentucky Derby this weekend (Cowboy Cal... o/o Texas Tammy who's half-sis to Behrens). If by some miracle Cowboy Cal wins, I imagine that would help keep Behrens fee up.
                                Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Norcrest View Post
                                  I am trying to get a feel for what sporthorse breeders look for. From reading this thread and another one the other day...I am seeing Kris S alot but am confused is Seattle Slew a plus or a negative? I just brought home a Seattle Slew son out of a Kris S mare and my neighbor wants to breed to him after seeing him move in the round pen...I know NOTHING but want to learn when it comes to Sporthorse breeding. What other TB sires are good to see in a pedigree?
                                  Seattle Slew is famous for being a very quirky horse (very particular with liking things done "a certian way or no way") and he is typical of the Bold Ruler line for that....and his offspring are usually talented but also often quirky/opinionated.He is bred Nasrullah top and bottom (the source of the 'tude). I like the Kris S side better...Roberto, Princequillo, Nashua...all up close.
                                  Providence Farm
                                  http://providencefarmpintos.blogspot.com/

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I crossed my huge grand prix jumping warmblood mare with Innkeeper. I have a gorgeous colt that I have no doubt will have a great career as a jumper. He is very athletic, knows exactly where to place his feet even when running at top speed! I crossed this mare with a warmblood the year before and that colt was a bit clunky. Now Innkeeper only raced early on and it was decided he wasn't race horse material, he did prove to be an excellent cross with the warmblood mares. Hilltop used him as their guest stallion for two years. They crossed him with Parlez (Parabol) and got a phenominal filly who was premium and had scores thru the roof. Innkeeper is by the stallion Secretariat. Look him up on enavantstud.com. My cross with my mare was so good I decided to breed back and am expecting next month. Good Luck.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by bpt View Post
                                      I crossed my huge grand prix jumping warmblood mare with Innkeeper. I have a gorgeous colt that I have no doubt will have a great career as a jumper. He is very athletic, knows exactly where to place his feet even when running at top speed! I crossed this mare with a warmblood the year before and that colt was a bit clunky. Now Innkeeper only raced early on and it was decided he wasn't race horse material, he did prove to be an excellent cross with the warmblood mares. Hilltop used him as their guest stallion for two years. They crossed him with Parlez (Parabol) and got a phenominal filly who was premium and had scores thru the roof. Innkeeper is by the stallion Secretariat. Look him up on enavantstud.com. My cross with my mare was so good I decided to breed back and am expecting next month. Good Luck.
                                      I agree totally!! One of my best broodmares and Premium at her warmblood inspection has similiar breeding to Innkeeper. She out produces herself over and over again. Lovely mover with loads of jump talent to boot. I am considering Innkeeper for one of my warmblood mares too.
                                      www.lazyjsporthorses.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        One of our stallions is very well bred for racing (this is his pedigree), but we stand him (and offer incentives) for sporthorse breeding as well.
                                        Fox Haven Farm, Inc.
                                        Home of 2002 JC Registered stallion Artrageous

                                        Artrageous has his own Facebook page!

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