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Antibiotics for newborns ...

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  • Antibiotics for newborns ...

    What do all of you breeders do?

    I have had vets that:

    1. Gave one single long acting shot of penicillin at 24 hours "just in case" to cover their bases with all foals

    2. Given nothing unless they need it

    3. Recommend a course of 10 cc's twice a day for 5 days "as a precaution"

    My filly born a few days ago had no temperature but the mare wasnt producing enough milk, so the filly was being bottle fed and was quiet and bordering on lethargic. I was concerned enough to get the vet out and as a precaution, he gave her 10 cc'sand recommended that I continue on for the next 5 days, twice a day.

    The mare was on oxytocin (we seem to have one helluva time getting Domperidone up here for some reason!) and then the vet wrote me a script for oral Domperidone that I started her on yesterday, I was applying hot compresses to her udder and FINALLY the milk started to come in early this morning and now the filly is bouncing off Mom, off the walls and everything else she can bounce off of!

    I have NO problem keeping a foal on antibiotics if we are fighting something and they NEED it, and I dont mind 1 shot at birth "just in case" but I am really loathe to stab this filly twice a day for the next 4 days for no reason???

    What are your thoughts on this?
    www.TrueColoursFarm.com
    www.truecoloursproducts.com

    True Colours Farm on Facebook

  • #2
    Here's a recent thread on this very topic:

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...al+antibiotics
    Tracy Anderson
    Cornerstone Farm - Breeders of quality sport prospects for the amateur and professional
    www.cornerstone-farm.ca
    We're now on facebook! Follow us here

    Comment


    • #3
      Did you have an IgG done? I would do plasma before antibiotics, especially if the foal doesn't have a temperature. Or, you may want to have a CBC done and look at the WBC and fibrinogen levels. That's what I would do.
      Kim
      'Like' my facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Calla...946873?sk=wall

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      • #4
        Who are these Vets who are recommending antibiotics to healthy foals? We have a huge problem with horses (and people) building up resistance do to over use of antibiotics when there is no reason to use them.

        I've bred horses/ponies for 25 years - YOU DON'T GIVE MEDICATION TO HEALTHY FOALS. PERIOD. If the IgG checks out - and there are no complications at birth - NO MEDICATION IS REQUIRED.

        Also different antibiotics are prescribed for different situations - if there is no illness or problem - how is this Vet deciding Penicillin is necessary?
        Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
        "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with the no antibiotic crowd. The only reason I might do it as a preventative is if I were concerned about aspiration from bottle feeding gone awry.
          McDowell Racing Stables

          Home Away From Home

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            I always do IgG's

            This new vet doesnt do them in house - he sends them out. The soonest I can get one done and sent out is Monday as he doesnt have SNAP tests and if he pulled blood on Saturday or Sunday it would just sit there til Monday

            My gut feeling is that the colostrum levels are ok but we'll know for sure when the resukts come back

            Looking back, I am positive that 90-95% of the vets I have used in the past give the babies a single shot of penicillin "just because" and "just in case" and for no other reason ...

            The secondary problem was the foal -the primary one was the dam and I was 99% positive once we got the dam sorted out the baby would be fine which is exactly what happened
            www.TrueColoursFarm.com
            www.truecoloursproducts.com

            True Colours Farm on Facebook

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TrueColours View Post
              I always do IgG's

              This new vet doesnt do them in house - he sends them out. The soonest I can get one done and sent out is Monday as he doesnt have SNAP tests and if he pulled blood on Saturday or Sunday it would just sit there til Monday
              I don't know about availability in Canada, but in the US the SNAP tests are available for purchase from several online suppliers. If my vet didn't always have them in stock, I would definitely buy enough to keep on hand for each foaling.

              I have only used antibiotics on a newborn when dealing with obvious placentitis.

              So glad your foal is doing well

              Comment


              • #8
                I've never worked in a practice that gave antibiotics 'just because'. It sounds like your foal was started because there was illness involved? I second the suggestions to get some SNAP tests if your vet won't have access to them in a timely manner. If your baby has no antibodies, all the antibiotics in the world aren't going to help much.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  No - no illness at all. No temperature in the mare or foal at all. My only concern was the lack of milk the dam was producing the first day and a half and THAT was affecting the foal, and the fact she wasnt that keen on the milk replacer I was giving her and was aiming for the nipple instead of the bottle every chance she got

                  Of the foals that were given a single shot of long acting penicillin "just in case", in the past, none of them were ill either, and this was across 4-5 different vet practices as well - not just a single vet. And of course I have had some foals that were compromised at birth and were started on different courses of medications until it was resolved, but this thread is dealing with the apparent healthy foal with no clinical or outward signs of not being ill, given a precautionary shot "just in case"

                  What is the window for expiry on the SNAP tests? That is why I am told the vets dont keep them on hand here - they expire quicker than they can use them
                  www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                  www.truecoloursproducts.com

                  True Colours Farm on Facebook

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't know any equine vets who give a single shot of antibiotics to a foal "just in case". I think it is supremely irresponsible. If the foal is indeed ill, a single shot won't do anything. This is how antibiotic resistance has gotten so out of control! However, if your foal has been started on antibiotics, even if she seems fine now, then I would complete the whole course. This contributes much less to resistant bugs then just giving a dose or two....
                    Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
                    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      On the thread that covered this subject recently, someone posted that this was something done commonly about 40 years ago. We have come far in our understanding of disease and antibiotic resistance since then. I would never give antibiotic routinely. I would also insist on an IGG test being done in a timely manner. Sending out and waiting for the results would not fly.
                      Mary Lou
                      http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                      https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                      Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It sounds like the vet may have been covering her in case she didn't get adequate colostrum. Given a history of inadequate milk production and a lethargic filly, I don't think it was unreasonable to cover the foal with antibiotics when blood work (IgG and/or CBC) was not readily accessible. That is different from routine use of antibiotics on every foal. This foal had a history that made it higher risk for infection.

                        That said, if the IgG comes back as adequate, I would finish a minimum 3-5 day course and stop.
                        Liz
                        Ainninn House Stud
                        Irish Draughts and Connemaras
                        Co. Westmeath, Ireland

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If I had a foal that I felt had not received sufficient colostrum, I would want it to have plasma, not antibiotics.
                          Mary Lou
                          http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                          https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                          Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't know a Vet that isn't THRILLED to have the IgG snap tests. I have never heard they have a shelf life but DUH - most foals are born in the spring so wouldn't a Vet with customers who breed have them on hand during that time of the year?
                            And one shot of Penicillin isn't going to cure anything. Sounds like your Vets in Alberta need to get updated on protocol for these newborns. Alot has changed in last decade.
                            Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                            "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I used SMZs, twice a day for 3 days! No stabbing involved
                              http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beacon...29771350379661

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by mvb View Post
                                I used SMZs, twice a day for 3 days! No stabbing involved
                                Perfect! That is just long enough to piss whatever bacteria that may have been there off enough that they come back with a vengeance. Not a good plan. You either treat with a full course or not at all.
                                McDowell Racing Stables

                                Home Away From Home

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Well this is what my vet has had my do for years. I have not had any problems. He and his father own one of the top thoroughbred farms in Lexington. I trust his judgement.


                                  Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                                  Perfect! That is just long enough to piss whatever bacteria that may have been there off enough that they come back with a vengeance. Not a good plan. You either treat with a full course or not at all.
                                  http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beacon...29771350379661

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Me too HAF. And I think it is good to discuss the ideal sequence of events for educational purposes. But I don't think the vet's choice was completely unreasonable given the situation he was presented with and not knowing the other factors that may have been at play on the day the decision was made.

                                    This is not a "pro-antibiotics on every foal" post. It is a "recognition that every situation is different" post and there may have been a reason the vet did what he did.
                                    Liz
                                    Ainninn House Stud
                                    Irish Draughts and Connemaras
                                    Co. Westmeath, Ireland

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      We give nothing unless they need it. However, if foal is lethargic we run fluids immediately. Usually an instant miracle. Our vet says a quiet foal is a sick foal! And most times they have good IgG's, just a bit dehydrated for some reason. This has saved us from referral MANY times.

                                      I think we've had 3 or 4 foals needing antibiotics out of 30+, and these were either dummy, umbilical abscess or patent urachus cases.
                                      Signature Sporthorses
                                      www.signaturesporthorses.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by TrueColours View Post
                                        I have NO problem keeping a foal on antibiotics if we are fighting something and they NEED it, and I dont mind 1 shot at birth "just in case" but I am really loathe to stab this filly twice a day for the next 4 days for no reason???

                                        What are your thoughts on this?
                                        Once you start a course of antibs', unless there's a good reason, you never want to stop before the course is done - that is part of what causes resistance issues.

                                        Not wanting to stick her isn't a "good" reason here LOL I understand though.
                                        ______________________________
                                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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