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fantastic splashed white!

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  • fantastic splashed white!

    http://www.trakehnerhof-mirbach.de/h...ht/sttalk.html
    www.australiancolouredperformancehorses.com.au

  • #2
    WOW! That is really incredible. Is it a full Trakehner?
    Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan

    http://www.halcyon-hill.com

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    • #3
      Looks like the mare Scharade has thrown some color previously, but that fella is spectacular! The mare herself is also nice!
      COTH's official mini-donk enabler

      "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

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      • #4
        Yep, I saw him a while ago!

        His sire Hirtentanz is well-known for throwing some spectacular Splash

        If you scroll down to 2009 on this page you can see the full brother. Unfortunately it only shows a head shot. You can see what the mare produced in '10 by a different stallion - very plain-looking foal.

        So definitely a large part of this is from Hirtentanz
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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        • #5
          Here's Sharade looks like it came from her.
          Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
          Now apparently completely invisible!

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          • #6
            Both his sire and dam are obviously splash. The foal is very typical of a homozygous splash. His extreme white came from both sides in this case. Very very cool!
            We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

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            • #7
              WOW, stunning!
              Trying a life outside of FEI tents and hotel rooms.

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              • #8
                Yep, the dam is obviously Splash too - both Scharade and Hirtentanz are heterozygous Splash, and when combined, they are 2 for 2 producing a homozygous Splash.

                I can't find a full body picture of the '10 filly Saphira but she doesn't have any white on her face, and I suspect she has little, if any white on her legs. I'm assuming the Summertime sire of that filly is this one http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/e_summe.html who seems to have a teeeeeny spot of white on his LH foot. So no, the color isn't just from Scharade (for the '11 and '09 foals), but she and Hirtentanz obviously combine very well LOL
                ______________________________
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                • #9
                  Wow, what a gorgeous baby!
                  Fox Haven Farm, Inc.
                  Home of 2002 JC Registered stallion Artrageous

                  Artrageous has his own Facebook page!

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                  • #10
                    Who further back in both their pedigrees contribute to that?
                    www.windhorsefrm.org and on Facebook too!
                    Where mares rule and Basset Hounds drool!

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                    • #11
                      I have a loud Trakehner mare and have researched her pedigree. She has Bend Or and Master Magpie way back.


                      (Found Master Magpie in the dam's and sire's Komet line. Three crosses so far.)
                      www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

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                      • #12
                        Hertentanz definitely received his splash gene from his dam, who received it from her dam. I'm looking through her ancestor's photos now to see if any others within the pedigree really stand out as splash.
                        We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

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                        • #13
                          Years ago, good breeders would not want any horses with white around the eyes, were breeding for pigment there, that was considered highly undesirable.

                          The problem with white around the eyes in bald faces is that practically all those horses end up with tumors there, sooner or later.
                          Before veterinary science had advanced enough to successfully treat those cancers, it was bad.

                          Here, if a horse has white, the vets will tatoo black around the eye, to help keep it sound as long as possible and those horses are kept with masks on when outside, which is supposed to help some.
                          The tattoo last a few years, then it has to be repeated.
                          I have friends with horses with those problems, sad indeed.

                          If I was breeding, I would be very careful not to follow some kinds of fads, that are contrary to the wellbeing of the horses, like white around the eyes.

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                          • #14
                            I do believe the incidence of skin cancer among fair skinned horses is far less than the incidence among grays - so perhaps people should move away from the "fad" of breeding grays too?

                            I am a Paint breeder, I have also seen/ridden/boarded with dozens upon dozens of fair-skinned Paints that are well into their 20's and even 30's. Never once have I met one that had any type of cancer of the eye area.

                            Virtually every aged gray horse I have ever known has suffered from some degree of melanoma however.
                            We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

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                            • #15
                              No melanoma on my teenage grey Dutch mare. Nor on my grey 1989 Trakehner cross gelding.
                              www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by TaliaCristianna View Post
                                I do believe the incidence of skin cancer among fair skinned horses is far less than the incidence among grays - so perhaps people should move away from the "fad" of breeding grays too?

                                I am a Paint breeder, I have also seen/ridden/boarded with dozens upon dozens of fair-skinned Paints that are well into their 20's and even 30's. Never once have I met one that had any type of cancer of the eye area.

                                Virtually every aged gray horse I have ever known has suffered from some degree of melanoma however.
                                Sorry, two wrongs still don't make any right.

                                Maybe you are not where it is that common, but in the SW, cancer on horses with white pigment is common and those with white pigment around the eyes a given.

                                Why breed for something that can and in many instances will bring misery to a horse, if we can avoid it?

                                At least a head's up for those that do try to breed for the best possible outcome, even if all of us know there will be something come up even then.

                                Each breeder has to examine if and where they will cut corners to get what they or the market they breed for may desire.

                                Old timers may not have known genetics as well as we do today, but since they had to try to make a living with the mistakes, they knew very well what they wanted and what not to breed for, if they wanted a usable, sound and healthy horse for all it's working years.

                                White around the eyes, be it in horses or cattle, was something they knew was not good and tried to breed only from those with pigment there.

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                                • #17
                                  Melanomas in gray horses happen regardless of sun, you cannot prevent them. If the horse lives long enough, he'll have them. Should you stop breeding grays?

                                  I fully believe it to be true that the sun-caused cancer around pink-skinned eyes is a much bigger problem in the SW, and probably in high country areas not even necessarily in the SW. It's probably a good thing to breed for black-skinned eye horses there. But that doesn't mean that other areas of the country, which don't exhibit nearly that degree of problem, should avoid pink-skinned eyes.
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Oakstable View Post
                                    No melanoma on my teenage grey Dutch mare. Nor on my grey 1989 Trakehner cross gelding.
                                    That is great for you, but you are lucky. The incidence of melanoma among grays is insanely high. 80% to be exact.

                                    http://www.cvm.umn.edu/equinegenetic...noma/home.html
                                    We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                      Sorry, two wrongs still don't make any right.

                                      Maybe you are not where it is that common, but in the SW, cancer on horses with white pigment is common and those with white pigment around the eyes a given.

                                      Why breed for something that can and in many instances will bring misery to a horse, if we can avoid it?

                                      At least a head's up for those that do try to breed for the best possible outcome, even if all of us know there will be something come up even then.

                                      Each breeder has to examine if and where they will cut corners to get what they or the market they breed for may desire.

                                      Old timers may not have known genetics as well as we do today, but since they had to try to make a living with the mistakes, they knew very well what they wanted and what not to breed for, if they wanted a usable, sound and healthy horse for all it's working years.

                                      White around the eyes, be it in horses or cattle, was something they knew was not good and tried to breed only from those with pigment there.
                                      Those same old timers also believed that pink hooves would crumble, blue eyes would go blind (dark skinned or not) and cremellos needed to be instantly culled.

                                      You are also talking about a time when UV protective sheets, fly masks and horse-friendly sunblock was not readily available. All of those things can drastically reduce if not totally eliminate the chance of the horse getting skin cancer.

                                      I would hardly say that putting a foal on the ground that happens to have pink skin is cutting corners. That statement cheapens every breed in which white patterns are/can be a breed trait. Paints, Pintos, Appaloosas, many Saddlebreds, Knabstrubbers etc.

                                      Shall we cull redheads from the human breeding program next?
                                      We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by TaliaCristianna View Post
                                        Those same old timers also believed that pink hooves would crumble, blue eyes would go blind (dark skinned or not) and cremellos needed to be instantly culled.

                                        You are also talking about a time when UV protective sheets, fly masks and horse-friendly sunblock was not readily available. All of those things can drastically reduce if not totally eliminate the chance of the horse getting skin cancer.

                                        I would hardly say that putting a foal on the ground that happens to have pink skin is cutting corners. That statement cheapens every breed in which white patterns are/can be a breed trait. Paints, Pintos, Appaloosas, many Saddlebreds, Knabstrubbers etc.

                                        Shall we cull redheads from the human breeding program next?
                                        I know of two paint breeders that quit breeding paints because of that problem.
                                        One was breeding paints before the APHA was even formed and bred some world champion paints.

                                        Just because some old timers said was not so, that doesn't mean all they said was wrong.

                                        My point is that we need to educate people about fads and why and why not they are good, be it HYPP for extra bulk, pigmentless eye rims or any other, so those that do decide to breed or buy from those breeders will have more to go by.

                                        I stand for anyone's right to breed what they want, even when questionable, but also expect any breeder to be responsible and at least acknowledge the issues with what they breed for.
                                        That I see lacking in some breeders.

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