Are there enough dilute WB's in the NA market???

[tri]

who aren't considered good enough by their own birth registries.

Hmm, that would include Rubinstein who was not approved by his Westfalien registry, and, how about Voltaire who was not approved by his Hanoverian registry....on and on.

[TrueColours]

I also wouldn't use CSHA for a wb stallion. For tb..yes. WB..no.

I am curious. Why?

Considering these WB stallions found the CSHA "good enough" to gain approval in this registry and found a valid reason to do so - I am curious why you feel it should only be geared towards TB stallions instead???

Balou du Rouet
Baloubet du Rouet
CABARDINO
DOUBLE DIAMOND
FOR JUMP
FRENCHMAN
FUTURIST
IKOON
ILIAN DE TAUTE
IRONMAN
JAMESTOWN
MONEY TALKS
NOVALIS
POPEYE K
RIO GRANDE
Rolls Royce
VIVA VOLTAIRE
WESTPORTE

With many of these stallions licensed and approved in other registries as well as being highly regarded stallions overall, I would think that their owners saw merit and value in having them CSHA approved and accredited as well - no?

[imajacres]

Well, I had two of my German boys (frozen semen) approved CSHA and it was purely a client service thing, for the Canadian mare owners. Both these stallions are approved almost everything in Europe, and their owners had no interest in CHSA, but at the same time said if it helped me sell semen, then I could go ahead.
And it isnt any more of a procedure than sending in their German licensing proof, and their 100 day test/ international showing results, and some pictures and quite a bit of money. They are basically "grandfathered" in.

I know for myself that I want the stallions I breed to to be affiliated with the big European registries first, then if they are also with the smaller ones, or Canadian ones that is nice, but not a deal clincher, and that is because my mares are registered in the big German books.
This gives me the most options.

But back to the OP's question- I am not into colour as a choosing factor, but if the stallion is licensed and approved with a major European registry, and suits my breeding purposes due to his/offspring's results and suitability for my mare, yet happens to be "purple", yes I would use him.
SO it really depends on the horse himself.

[Donella]

What I am getting at tri is if the major, most respected registries wont touch him, in my books, he isnt good enough. That is my opinion. I wouldn't breed any of my mares to a stallion who cannot pass a very tough and rigorous selection process. That is my opinion and I am going to make a wild guess and say that is likely the feeling of most of the breeders who own top wb mares.

Anyways..TC, I think CSHA is more of a hunter type registry. At least that is how it comes across to alot of Canadians. Those stallions listed there are part of it because its another mare base PLUS, again, most of those stallions are jumper/hunter sires. Maybe I am wrong but for the most part CSHA is rather unheard of south of the border and if I had a wb stallion and I wanted a good amount of quality mares I would have him approved with one of the major, tough registries. JMHO.

Plus...ask yourself this: How many GOV or Dutch or Holstein approved dilute wb stallions are there in NA? I dont think ANY. You would really be in a good place if you could do that!

[TrueColours]

Anyways..TC, I think CSHA is more of a hunter type registry. At least that is how it comes across to alot of Canadians. Those stallions listed there are part of it because its another mare base PLUS, again, most of those stallions are jumper/hunter sires. Maybe I am wrong but for the most part CSHA is rather unheard of south of the border and if I had a wb stallion and I wanted a good amount of quality mares I would have him approved with one of the major, tough registries. JMHO.

I think because the CSHA used to be known as the "The Canadian Hunter Improvement Society" it has followed through to this day that it is predominantly or EXCLUSIVELY, a hunter registry. For better or for worse ... ... and even when pure jumper stallions come in with confirmed jumper bloodlines and jumper results its hard to swing away from the "hunter" perception of the registry itself

And I will agree that if you tell an American Mare Owner that your stallion is approved in the Holstein or GOV or Hanoverian registry that is something quantifiable to them - they know instantly what that means, but if you tell them your stallion is a CSHA approved stallion, they will have a harder time grasping what that really means in the big picture ...

Plus...ask yourself this: How many GOV or Dutch or Holstein approved dilute wb stallions are there in NA? I dont think ANY. You would really be in a good place if you could do that!

Interesting and very correct as well ...

[FriesianX]

Right now, buckskin is "hot" - so, is there a market for a DD? Right now, probably yes... Color sells - I've run into people over and over who ask about color FIRST, whose number one criteria in shopping is color. But, in the long run, hot colors come and go, while classical and correct conformation, mind, and movement last forever... So, if you find a DD who is the "whole package", then there should be a long term market for such a stallion.

I agree, there aren't many DDs breeding right now who are showing and performing and have the gaits and conformation PLUS the color. Not saying there are none, just not too many...

[Oakstable]

It's my impression that the major European-based registeries strongly favor the traditional colors of black, bay, chestnut and grey, and color is discriminated against.

The American market likes what it likes. Color included.

[traklover]

My answer would be yes if he is elegible for inspection/registration with a European based Registry. Honestly if it was my money......I would probably buy him and keep him in Germany(I assume) until he had completed his 100 day test. I would import him after he is approved. Board is not hugely expensive in Europe and you would have access to a much more economical trainer base. I was recently quoted 5000 Euro's to put a stallion prospect through the test all inclusive(however this was reflects a "friendship discount)

One my friends put her stallion through some N/A based registries such as the RPSI, she indicated by the time she paid for everything (board, airfare, horse transport) the RPSI test was close to 10,000.

She also has paid 2000/month in states for training of her current stallion.

[SueL]

mistyjewell... you have put much thought into your program which is successful for you, and great for the person who is lucky enough to get the offspring you produce.
There is a market out there for everyone. I am hopelessly addicted to horses, and I need a point in which to start...
I set out to buy the best ( my opinion only ) of what my "flavor of the month" may be.
I search sites, keep a list of babies "in the oven" that interest me. I am very superficial in my selections. I start with the Stallion... a first impression, then an an indication of their jumping ability ( instincts are instincts ) ... then the find a mare that is bred to a favorite ... and only look at colts.
Then conformation followed by movement... both must be perfect in my eyes as well as the professionals I confer with. If not ... I keep moving!

I realize it's tough to be a breeder these days with all the liabilities and huge expense involved. I don't know how many of you do it.

Having been on the breeding end and the selecting end, I <b> do </b> look at bloodlines, because I do think there are certain important "family traits" I find it every bit as valuable when looking at young 'uns on the ground as it was when selecting breeding stock; the advantage is that selecting young 'uns is not quite the crapshoot that selecting gametes was. LOL.

Sue

[alexandra]

Sue offtopic but who is it you qoute in your signature line ?

[Beezer]

Thanks to all who asked

... and NOT to hijack the thread ...

I added some pictures of our Cowboy to my chronicleofmyhorse page (which I admit I don't use much, LOL!); they're here: http://www.chronicleofmyhorse.com/profile/Jill58

The stallion we went with is Zippo Vanilla Bar; he's actually being marketed at the Arab world since colored Half-Arabs are all the rage (who knew??). We had a couple of key things we were trying to improve on the mare and so far, it looks like we have. Now, I well know that ZVB will absolutely NOT be for everyone, but I really liked the fact that he got his ROM (register of merit) in hunters under saddle as well as other events (he even does roping! ) and has been handled by amateur owners his whole career, which speaks incredibly to his disposition (a VERY important thing to me!) -- and he has clearly passed on to our colt, who is a doll.

Also, please keep in mind that I bred this foal for myself. I plan on keeping him and riding him and showing him and loving him in my senior years (and, yes, there is a castration in his future ). This isn't a cross that everyone would like, and I don't expect them to. But for me and my goals, it appears to have worked out exactly as planned. If Cowboy looks just as nice by the time he's a yearling, I'll likely breed the mare back to Zippo Vanilla Bar.

As to the OP, as you can see, there are all kinds of mare owners out there -- as you already know. We all have different wants and needs. I truly believe that we are all striving to produce what is, to us, the right horse for us. If the stallion prospect you are looking at would be a stallion prospect if he were plain chestnut (NOT that there's anything wrong with a plain chestnut!) then if all the other important factors that make him a stallion in your mind align, then that's your answer.

[Molly Malone]

Sue offtopic but who is it you qoute in your signature line ?

Charles de Knuffy's younger, more handsome and better upholstered cousin, Charles de Comfy (spelled Kunffy in Austria)

[holsteinersrock]

Color is icing on the cake. But you need to be sure you do have the cake first!

I would also take into consideration our abysmal economy, gas prices, hay shortage on the East Coast, slaughter ban... folks are offering free breedings, giving horses a way, turning them loose.... so it would have to be a really exceptional stallion to make all the expense worth-while.

Finally, it's a matter of taste. Black is always great, as is black bay, chrome sells, some people prefer dapple grey. Buckskin, pinto, palomino... very much loved by Western riders but not always by WB breeders.

A good horse is a good horse.

Anna

[Oakstable]

The OP is in Canada. Their economy apprently is doing just fine. Our abyssmal economy may not be a major consideration in bringing a stallion into Canada.

[tri]

The so-called abyssmal economy is also not in all area in the U.S. Our state and very much our county is booming, more record highs on the stock market this week and interest rates low low low. We own several companies and 2007 was the best out of the last three years and beat it by a long shot. First quarter 2008 cranked along at a whirlwind pace as well. As major corporations' earnings are starting to come out - as the nay-sayers are now saying - "better than expected", more and more economists are backing off their forecasts of "possible" recession. Horses are selling around here and for good prices. We have one being vetted next week.

[Oakstable]

My area was one of the fastest growing in the country so it is abysmal here with the collapse of the housing market.

Gas is $4/gal. and people commute LONG distances.

[Donella]

If the stallion is just being marketed to the Canadian mare base I don't know of another dilute stallion with CWHBA or CSH...but why not appeal to everyone at the same time.

It is true that some registries would not consider him though because of his color. Hanover wont...not sure about any others?

I also want to second that Canada's economy is full steam ahead right now, so....

[DownYonder]

I am not a fan of breeding for color, but I do realize that many people put color at the top of their list when making breeding decisions. I would think that a very good quality dilute WB stallion that is approved by a major WB registry would be of interest to many WB mare owners.

Bear in mind though that just because the colt is registered as an Oldenburg does not mean he will get approved by Oldenburg. Oldenburg in Germany has a distinct preference for dark-coated stallions, esp. when talking about dressage stallions, and a distinct dislike for "colored" stallions. Also remember that Oldenburg (GOV) turned down Blonder Hans when he was presented here a few years ago. I imagine that a double dilute stallion would have to be of incredibly good quality with excellent bloodlines to get the nod from Oldenburg inspectors.

[Sixth Sense]

Also, not trying to hijack the thread but in doing a search completely unrelated, I came across this colt who has super bloodlines (Dutch). Not sure if he's "stallion" quality as he is quite young but he certainly caught my eye. He's here (in US) and he's a buckskin which has always been a weakness of mine...

[Nootka]

ahhhh yes, the Goodtimes colt. He is a cutie