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Are there enough dilute WB's in the NA market???

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  • #41
    If this is the colt that I am thinking it may be, will he be recognized by Oldenburg in the US? If he looks better than any wb cremello on the market now, he might be worth considering. But some of those other cremellos were bred by the same person, and I personally don't care for that stock at all. And that is only my opinion.

    I have no idea what the price tag is on this colt, but don't you think maybe you could find a colt 10 times better that is a blingy chestnut or bay? I would rather breed to the latter.

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    • #42
      All Aboard....

      Chugga Chugga Chugga Chugga ... Chugga Chugga Chugga Chugga ... Woo Woo!
      ~ Bill Rube ~
      http://www.bydesignfarm.com
      Check us out on Facebook

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      • #43
        Originally posted by TrueColours View Post
        ...I came across a fabulous WB (Oldenburg) yearling colt in Europe with impeccable bloodlines and everything else SO right about him, that I am actually seriously considering importing him to stand in Canada.
        First, I think it's important to note that he's already a yearling. So if he didn't sell as a weanling, or if all of a sudden now the breeder wants to sell him instead of keeping him for him/herself, shouldn't that raise red flags?

        Secondly, if this is the colt that everyone seems to *think* they know (myself included), I don't see the "impeccable bloodlines" anywhere in his immediate pedigree... No Donnerhall, Weltmeyer, Florestan, Sandro, Argentinus, Pik, Grannus, Landgraf, Corde, Lord... (just pulling names from the Oldenburger Pferde website from their approved stallions). I don't think using names in the 4th and 5th generation really constitutes an "impeccable bloodline".

        Of course, I could completely have the wrong colt and perhaps there is another one that does have impeccable bloodlines that is for sale...?
        ~Christina~ Keur-Wood Stables
        Breeders of Dutch and Swedish Warmbloods
        Standing approved Buckskin Swedish Warmblood Stallion, CATAPULT
        http://www.superiorwarmblood.com

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        • #44
          Originally posted by SHWarmblood View Post
          First, I think it's important to note that he's already a yearling. So if he didn't sell as a weanling, or if all of a sudden now the breeder wants to sell him instead of keeping him for him/herself, shouldn't that raise red flags?

          Secondly, if this is the colt that everyone seems to *think* they know (myself included), I don't see the "impeccable bloodlines" anywhere in his immediate pedigree... No Donnerhall, Weltmeyer, Florestan, Sandro, Argentinus, Pik, Grannus, Landgraf, Corde, Lord... (just pulling names from the Oldenburger Pferde website from their approved stallions). I don't think using names in the 4th and 5th generation really constitutes an "impeccable bloodline".
          ...so it seems we're back to a colt that can produce color & not much else....

          I'd love a DD hunter producing stallion, but I don't see it happening. When you breed for color, quality seems to go out the door as is very evident given what stands in North America already.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by spacely View Post
            When you breed for color, quality seems to go out the door
            I disagree, and I am not sure you are in a position to make a such a statement.
            That being said, the OP is asking if there would be a market for A WB double dilute stallion .... I like "horses of a different color".... and no one can predict talent! When it comes to performing, and trying to take all pre-dispositions into consideration... the breeding game is still a crap shoot...

            What a nice sunny, warm, and lovely day!
            ~ Bill Rube ~
            http://www.bydesignfarm.com
            Check us out on Facebook

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            • #46
              Originally posted by SilverBalls View Post
              I disagree, and I am not sure you are in a position to make a such a statement.
              That being said, the OP is asking if there would be a market for A WB double dilute stallion .... I like "horses of a different color".... and no one can predict talent! When it comes to performing, and trying to take all pre-dispositions into consideration... the breeding game is still a crap shoot...

              What a nice sunny, warm, and lovely day!
              Difference of opinion Bill. That's all. I'm not getting into it as I am in no mood to do so. I have seen a very few dilutes that I do like.

              It is a beautiful day...

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              • #47
                Seems like quite a big leap to make that he has nothing to offer other than colour isn't it? Whoever this colt is has a sire and dam of sufficient quality and pedigree to be approved by the GOV.

                As for a brief stint at Training level not being an accomplishment...well...it's enough to get lifetime approval with the ATA for a stallion to complete a Training level event so they must think otherwise.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by Galileo1998 View Post
                  Seems like quite a big leap to make that he has nothing to offer other than colour isn't it? Whoever this colt is has a sire and dam of sufficient quality and pedigree to be approved by the GOV.

                  As for a brief stint at Training level not being an accomplishment...well...it's enough to get lifetime approval with the ATA for a stallion to complete a Training level event so they must think otherwise.

                  I agree Galileo. There are many approved stallions out there that has no real competition record to speak of and have produced winners.
                  www.signaturesporthorses.com

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                  • #49
                    so it seems we're back to a colt that can produce color & not much else.
                    Hmm, seems a few posters think that having approval with the "reputable" warmblood registries means little to nothing - so much for the mistaken idea that these registries breed horses for the olympic disciplines and that the approval process is what makes the difference in breeding higher quality horses than those pitiful registries that just automatically register the offspring of two registered parents.

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                    • #50
                      At the end of the day... I personally could care less about approvals and registries. As long as the horse moves and jumps good for the hunter ring... that's all I care about. If I prefer a palomino or buckskin that day... so be it.

                      I have been in the dark bay & gray mood lately.

                      I understand why breeders feel they need to rely on registries and approvals. Some breeders hold certain organizations in a higher regard than others... who's to say?

                      But this "my registry is better than your registry", or "my approval is better than your approval" is a joke.

                      It's almost like breeding a dressage stallion to a hunter bred mare to get a horse that will jump well.... or breeding a jumper stallion to a dressage mare to get a horse that will excell in dressage... or breeding a cremello/dilute stallion to a bay hunter mare to get a bucksin hunter... who are any of us to judge?
                      The color breeders, the dressage breeders, the hunter breeders.... you are all breeding for a purpose to the best of your ability... aren't you?
                      ~ Bill Rube ~
                      http://www.bydesignfarm.com
                      Check us out on Facebook

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                      • #51
                        There appears to be a market for all kinds - I guess it would depend which market you think the stallion would appeal to, how big that market is, and whether that is sufficient for the plan. Appears from the responses that many would not be interested, but some would!

                        As to this
                        "There are many approved stallions out there that has no real competition record to speak of and have produced winners"

                        I think that bloodlines are banked on. While this particular son of lines x,y,z may not be a dazzler in the show ring, or have done much showing, x,y,and z have produced winners. And they did have to show something to get approved, did they not?

                        My personal preference is some show record. If not shown due to youth or injury, then approval scores and bloodlines, or offspring if available to evaluate.
                        "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



                        www.dontlookbackfarm.com

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                        • #52
                          But this "my registry is better than your registry", or "my approval is better than your approval" is a joke
                          I wasn't trying to say that, I just said a lit of mare owners have registred mares, and want registered offspring to prove pedigree etc, not to mention there are classes specific to some breeds for youngsters which is nice. I didn't say there was any one better then another, just that if someone was going to market to the United States, the best bet would be to go with a registry that is an option in the US. I'm lucky that there are GOV, OLD NA, RPSI, AHS, AWS, AWR, and Dutch inspections/kuerings all withing an hour of me or so, and if I really liked a stallion, I could take my mare to any of those, but there are no Canadian Sport Horse inspections anywhere near me (are there any in the US? I honestly don't know) I was just suggesting it as a more marketable to this market, if that was the desire.
                          ---------------------------

                          ~Once you have ridden the tiger it is impossible to dismount~

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                          • #53
                            Of course one could, were one in the mood to do so, argue that a stallion doing a brief stint at training level eventing is still better than a stallion doing nothing much at all in a field...
                            According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.

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                            • #54
                              mistyjewell... you have put much thought into your program which is successful for you, and great for the person who is lucky enough to get the offspring you produce.
                              There is a market out there for everyone. I am hopelessly addicted to horses, and I need a point in which to start...
                              I set out to buy the best ( my opinion only ) of what my "flavor of the month" may be.
                              I search sites, keep a list of babies "in the oven" that interest me. I am very superficial in my selections. I start with the Stallion... a first impression, then an an indication of their jumping ability ( instincts are instincts ) ... then the find a mare that is bred to a favorite ... and only look at colts.
                              Then conformation followed by movement... both must be perfect in my eyes as well as the professionals I confer with. If not ... I keep moving!

                              I realize it's tough to be a breeder these days with all the liabilities and huge expense involved. I don't know how many of you do it.
                              ~ Bill Rube ~
                              http://www.bydesignfarm.com
                              Check us out on Facebook

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                              • #55
                                Originally posted by SilverBalls View Post
                                I disagree, and I am not sure you are in a position to make a such a statement.
                                Well, I feel I am! After looking at all the WB and TB double dilutes out there now and not being ... impressed ... I went with a lovely AQHA cremello who has his ROM in hunters under saddle and a couple of other things. Besides, his stud fee was a fraction of the WBs' and TBs' fees, and since I'm one of those hunter people who don't care about papers, he was the perfect fit. And my resulting light palomino colt out of my huge Alla'Czar mare is all I could have wished for.

                                So, is there a market for a DD? Yes ... because the quality isn't there for those of us looking for something different. But just because we are looking for something different does not mean that we will sacrifice quality to get it.
                                Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!

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                                • #56
                                  Beezer... that's wonderful... any pictures? What a clever cross....
                                  ~ Bill Rube ~
                                  http://www.bydesignfarm.com
                                  Check us out on Facebook

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                                  • #57
                                    Beezer, I was going to ask you that too. Who was the AQHA stud?

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      I am a sucker for a buckskin, myself. BUT, I agree that it seems a lot of DDs are bred (not jst stallions, mares, too!) just based on their color. I saw a mare with TERRIBLE conformation who was a unique color and they were boasting about it being the "only xxx mare in yyy reg" etc. I would consider a DD sire if it actually had good bloodlines and proven sport ability. I think there could be a market, possibly. Depends how deep you want to get into it on the WB side, I guess. Good luck with your decision!
                                      Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan

                                      http://www.halcyon-hill.com

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                                      • #59
                                        I honestly don't want to offend anyone but to get a large quality wb mare base you will need to have him approved with a serious, tough registry. If the stallion cannot pass the GOV approvals and that is his breed then he should be gelded. Alot of the registries discussed approve anything with four legs. I think what alot of people are saying is that there is a market for one who stands out from the other dilute wb type stallions out there who aren't considered good enough by their own birth registries.

                                        I also wouldn't use CSHA for a wb stallion. For tb..yes. WB..no.
                                        www.svhanoverians.com

                                        "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

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                                        • #60
                                          Beezer, I third the comments asking for more info on the AQHA stallion you chose.

                                          Inquiring minds want to know.
                                          Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
                                          Racehorses, OTTBs ~~ 330 383 1281
                                          Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway. -- John Wayne

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