• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Appy color question

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Appy color question

    My baby is a solid mousy brown, not a white hair on her, hahaha!! So she is going to turn black for sure. Okay, a blanket would have been nice, but solid black is pretty cool too! The breeder said she may shed out to some spots, but I'm not holding my breath. And where did those legs come from?? Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has experience with appy shedding, how often do they shed out to spots?? The last one had solid ears and a little on her neck that eventually shed out, she was a full leopard from birth pretty much. Never seen a whole blanket showing up or anything like that, so I ask the experts. Vids of the tyke are below.

  • #2
    Yours would not be the first to get more and more spotted as he gets older
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


    • #3
      Best chance would be a snowflake pattern. My stud sired a black filly who shed out with the most gorgeous snowflake pattern ever. The owners of the mare kept insisting she was grey with no pattern . Regardless of whether she sheds out with color or not, she is very cute!
      Lapeer ... a small drinking town with a farming problem.
      Proud Closet Canterer!


      • #4
        I have a bay based varnish roan mare and she was born solid bay w/ a star and one little sock. She roaned out as a 2yo and hasn't changed in the six years I've owned her. Her '06 son was born bay w/ a blanket and this winter he started roaning, as well. Really anxious to see if the roan stays after he sheds all of his winter fluff, but it sure looks it. The blanket is still very obvious so he'll hopefully keep that.

        Regardless of color, she's a cutie. I had a black bay N/C stallion that never got any characteristics, but he was still a neat and good looking horse. I had him from a weaner until 4 (didn't die, was gelded and sold.)
        A Merrick N Dream Farm
        Proud Member of "Someone Special to me serves in the Military" Clique


        • #5
          My first horse was a black appy, although he did have a nice blanket. Years later he roaned out to a leopard app ! Big black spots everywhere !
          Dr. Baird's law:
          In a voluntary organization, the amount of criticism one receives is directly proportional to the amount of work done and it emanates from those who do the very least.


          • #6
            I had one born mousy brown that was almost totally white by the time he was a 5 year old, with about a dozen quarter sized spots on his rump.

            The one we have now was born black with white on his rump, he is now a roan with black and white spots on his rump.
            Save lives! Adopt a pet from your local shelter.


            • #7
              My filly was born on 4/21/08 and she is a solid bay with only a white spot the size of a pencil eraser on her head! She is absolutely beautiful though. My mare is a bay/white tobiano so we were hoping for some color like you were!
              ~ Scarborough Fair Farm ~


              • #8
                I have seen many that started out a solid dark color, and ended up totally leopard on a grey/roan base...

                over different lengths of time.. and changing annually...
                "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
                Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
                Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
                Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB


                • #9
                  My Appy gelding was born a bay with a blanket. By the time he was 5, he was a varnish roan leopard. With Apps, you never know what color they'll turn out to be --- heck, my Appy mare changes colors to suit her mood, I swear! There are some that hold on to their color, but most will change. A solid baby is nothing to fret about --- another year or two from now, he may look totally different.



                  • #10
                    That's a very cute filly. Congratulations!

                    Does your filly have any of the Appaloosa characteristics (striped hooves, white sclera around the eye, mottling)? The easiest characteristics to see at this age are the white sclera around the eye and mottling on the muzzle, teats/udder, and/or ano-genital region. If your filly does not have any characteristics then it is highly unlikely that she will develop color. Usually people who had horses that developed color but didn't think the horses had characteristics find that the horse does have some characteristics but you have to look really hard to find them, like mottling hidden between the teats.

                    From looking at the sire and the dam I see that the sire is heterozygous for the LP gene (he is a leopard) so he is LP/lp and the dam appears to be non-characteristic so she doesn't have anything to contribute there so she is lp/lp. This gene is what allows color to be expressed so long as the color gene (PATN) is present. If LP is present without PATN you have a horse that has appaloosa characteristics but no real spotted pattern. I haven't looked at the pedigree of the sire or the dam to see what their parents coloring was. The dam could very well be carrying at least one PATN but you wouldn't know because she is missing the LP so it would be hidden.

                    Your filly could be carrying PATN from the sire and/or PATN from the dam if she is hiding one. Assuming that the sire only has one PATN and that the dam has no PATN then your chances for the filly's color were 50% that she would get LP and 50% that she would get PATN but only 25% that she would get LP and PATN. There is also a 25% chance she got the PATN but not the LP so any appaloosa color she carried would be hidden.

                    Now there is another thing to add to the equation. The filly is black and blacks suppress appaloosa coloring more than any other color. If given the exact same color genes but a different base coat a chestnut foal would have the most color, then the bay a little less and the black even less than the bay.

                    I had a black/brown filly born in 2007 by the Trakehner stallion Tanzeln and a homozygous appalooosa dam (few spot). She has all the characteristics but no real spotted pattern at birth. I did a double-take when that one came out. Apparently the dam is homozygous for LP/LP but not for PATN. The filly did have some white hairs pretty evenly through her coat when she was born. She is almost finished shedding out her winter coat now and yesterday I noticed that she seems to have small clumps of white hairs over her hips. I love a nice snowflake roan and am keeping my fingers crossed that is what she is developing. Regardless, she is a very nice and athletic filly so I can't be disappointed that she isn't smashingly loud.

                    There is a great educational and interactive website regarding the genetics of the spotted breeds - Appaloosas, Knabstruppers, POAs, etc. You should check it out. www.appaloosaproject.info I think it can help spotted horse and pony breeders make better decisions where color is concerned if they want to ensure that they produce colored horses.
                    Altamont Sport Horses
                    Trakehners * Knabstruppers * Appaloosa Sport Horses
                    Home of stallions: Ambrosius af Asgard "Atlantis" & Hollywood Hot Spot
                    Birmingham, AL


                    • #11
                      That is a wealth of knowledge you have there and I would love to know more about this "appy coloring" concept like you? i am such a fan of the Appaloosa that it is driving me crazy not to own one now. I am however looking and I do have my eye on one. He is actually non colored...
                      "YOU create your own stage. The audience is waiting."


                      • Original Poster

                        Mom is from two loud leopards, and has no characteristics at all. Well, I think she has a little mottling on her nose, she does have some small spots, but everyone says it's not really, so I gave up. She actually does look like she has dark spots on her summer coat, like a black on black kind of thing, but who knows. She's a fader and looks like a dark bay, that's why the spots kind of stick out, looks like water dripped on her. But whether they are real spots I don't know.

                        Baby doesn't appear to have mottling, and i can't tell if she has sclera or if she's just wide-eyed at the world, hahaha.. she probably doesn't have it. I don't see it when she's just resting, but I"ll try and keep an eye out and take a good look.

                        Weird thing on the baby is that the bottom of her legs are lighter than the top, and I would have thought the bottom would be darker. Her muzzle is light as well as her tummy. But that's probably more baby fuzz and coloring than anything else.

                        She's an appy all right, just like her mother... hahaha...



                        • #13
                          Forgot to mention in my first post. My mare's '04 gelding was born solid black bay w/ not a lick of white or chacteristics. I sold him prior to being weaned and he's been w/ his new owners since he was weaned. Now, as a 4yo, he's still solid black bay w/ no signs of changing anytime soon. I believe he's N/C to stay. The '06 colt I mentioned w/ the blanket and roaning is his full brother... so he was quite a nice surprise. Same base color, but w/ a lot more white!! Took the shedding blade to him yesterday afternoon and he's got these snowflake looking spots in various places all over his body... face, neck and sides. He also has a couple little brown/almost tannish cream spots, quite large, near his blanketed hip. I'm not sure what he's doing pattern wise.

                          Apps are fun!!
                          A Merrick N Dream Farm
                          Proud Member of "Someone Special to me serves in the Military" Clique


                          • #14
                            The lighter legs is from the amniotic fluid. Foals with black points end up with 'fawn' points until they shed their baby coat. Many black foals go through a series of colour changes and may be everything from grulla looking to dark bay to pumpkin bay to 'fawn' all over. You really have to go by what colour they were when they were wet, or wait until... oh... 2 or 3 years old...
                            InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs

                            Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)


                            • #15
                              Appy's and their spots

                              I bred a non-spot claybank dun appy to a bright Chestnut wb stallion and just knew I would get a solid, red dun or chestnut. Nope - got a yellow-red Dun with a white blanket. Now that he is turning two, he is getting small white spots on his neck - I think Appy's like to hide their spots! Can't wait to see him as a 5 yo.

                              Doubt yours will get a blanket, but don't be surprised when her spots start popping out.

                              It's very interesting to watch!


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Asmac View Post
                                I bred a non-spot claybank dun appy to a bright Chestnut wb stallion and just knew I would get a solid, red dun or chestnut. Nope - got a yellow-red Dun with a white blanket.
                                What kind of warmblood was it? Something isnt right there.
                                Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!


                                • #17
                                  Can you put your mare and the stallion on the all breed pedigree site? Its not that unusual for leopard to leopard to leopard breeding to produce a NC foal. If there is no roaning in the blood lines Then I doubt she will develop any. You might have better luck with a blanket or of course a few spot.

                                  Anyway she is cute as a button. Any pictures. Dial up and vids dont go together.


                                  • #18
                                    I had a black colt born out of a snowflake chestnut X black blanketed w/spots stud. His yrling stage he was black w/silver streaked mane/tail. His 2yr stage was black, silver mane/tail and a splotchy hip blanket. His color was very striking. He had few spots in the blanket at 3 when I sold him.


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Proud To Be Spotted View Post
                                      Can you put your mare and the stallion on the all breed pedigree site? Its not that unusual for leopard to leopard to leopard breeding to produce a NC foal.
                                      Yes, I have a mare that is out of two leopards and she is homozygous (few spot). She had a full brother that was completely solid and remained so. Of course leopards are heterozygous and can only throw their LP half the time. The chance of a non-colored and non-characteristic foal out of two leopards is 25%.
                                      Altamont Sport Horses
                                      Trakehners * Knabstruppers * Appaloosa Sport Horses
                                      Home of stallions: Ambrosius af Asgard "Atlantis" & Hollywood Hot Spot
                                      Birmingham, AL