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Look at these legs

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  • Look at these legs

    Picture 1
    Picture 2
    Picture 3
    Picture 4
    Picture 5

    How would you expect the legs of this 20 month old colt to finish up as an adult?

    Can the asymmetries be corrected at this stage?

    Would you consider this conformation acceptable for an eventer?

    Thanks for any opinions and insight!
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  • #2
    <deleted> because I can't really tell, and if I can't, then I need to keep it to myself
    Last edited by ahf; May. 20, 2011, 04:14 PM.
    "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin

    Comment


    • #3
      The angle makes the pasterns look tremendously short and upright, but I can't tell if it is the angle of the shot?? Do a side shot out from the side further and more even with the middle of the body pretty please.

      In the first picture, I assume the horse is not standing evenly, because he/she actually looks like there is a toe out on one leg and a toe in on the others, but then in all other pictures it looks like a toe out? Which wouldn't bother me that much, especially at that age.

      What does bother me (too) is the knees, but it might be the pictures. In at least one picture the horse really looks over at the knee. Would be much easier to evaluate front shots if the camera was held lower and further back from the horse.
      DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

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      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
        The angle makes the pasterns look tremendously short and upright, but I can't tell if it is the angle of the shot?? Do a side shot out from the side further and more even with the middle of the body pretty please.
        Sure! Here's a conformation pic.

        He's not over at the knee, TG. The other pics do seem to make the toed out-ness change sides a bit depending what leg is forward.
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        • #5
          OMgosh much better! Pictures are so hard!

          If I want to be picky, still the pasterns are a bit short, imo, but the angle is vastly improved! (Actually looking again the white may be tricking my eye into thinking they are shorter than they are).

          So is your concern the toe-out? I've seen that change from youngsters to horse as the chest widens. I'm more worried about a horse that toes in at that age, personally, because it can get worse.
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          • Original Poster

            #6
            Well my concern is the asymmetry. My fear is the toed out one will end up straight but the straight one will end up... toed in. Which I hate.

            Dam toed in. Dam had ringbone that shortened her career significantly. Vet said no correlation but I say vet was quite possibly wrong!
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            • #7
              Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but it looks to me like he really hasn't had good farrier work. Yes, he toes out a smidge, which wouldn't worry me alot if he moves straight.

              But his hooves definitely look to me like they are different sizes and different angles, although it's hard to tell from the conformation shot if this is reflected in the pastern angles (the grass is a bit too deep).

              It seems his joints are all in alignment, which is good. But I really would get a new farrier....

              PS the best way to get a good photo from the front of legs is to have the photographer get down on their knees about 6-8 ft. in front of the horse, with the horse standing square. Easier to tell alignment from those type of photos, at least for me.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Xanthoria View Post
                Sure! Here's a conformation pic.

                He's not over at the knee, TG. The other pics do seem to make the toed out-ness change sides a bit depending what leg is forward.
                Nothing constructive to add, but what a cutie pie he is! I loff his face.
                The plural of anecdote is not data

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kyzteke View Post
                  Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but it looks to me like he really hasn't had good farrier work. Yes, he toes out a smidge, which wouldn't worry me alot if he moves straight.

                  But his hooves definitely look to me like they are different sizes and different angles, although it's hard to tell from the conformation shot if this is reflected in the pastern angles (the grass is a bit too deep).

                  It seems his joints are all in alignment, which is good. But I really would get a new farrier....

                  PS the best way to get a good photo from the front of legs is to have the photographer get down on their knees about 6-8 ft. in front of the horse, with the horse standing square. Easier to tell alignment from those type of photos, at least for me.
                  Originally posted by SecondInCommand View Post
                  Nothing constructive to add, but what a cutie pie he is! I loff his face.
                  I agree with both these posts

                  That face is cute! I don't normally like wide blazes, but his is pretty daorable
                  .

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                  • #10
                    I would say Yes it is too soon to tell if his front legs will be an issue in the distant future. I get the impression you have known this horse since it was a foal? If so I would ask if the farrier has messed around to straighten crooked feet...trying to make the toed out foot come straight. If not then I would just wait. He is pretty wide now...unless he has a relative with an extremely wide chest he may not get hugely wider. His bone will model in where it needs to, from 20 months my Irish Draughts can get a huge lot more bone and a much wider chest and can roll those elbows out. The shoulder will leave and come back...so much can still change. You have had a bad experience but I think you just have to let this horse grow and quit critiquing him til he is late 3 and ready to back and then only critique whether he is in balance enough to be backed. Mid 4s look at him critically to see if his conformation might affect his career choice...20 months is too soon. PatO

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by columbus View Post
                      I would say Yes it is too soon to tell if his front legs will be an issue in the distant future. I get the impression you have known this horse since it was a foal? If so I would ask if the farrier has messed around to straighten crooked feet...trying to make the toed out foot come straight. If not then I would just wait. He is pretty wide now...unless he has a relative with an extremely wide chest he may not get hugely wider. His bone will model in where it needs to, from 20 months my Irish Draughts can get a huge lot more bone and a much wider chest and can roll those elbows out. The shoulder will leave and come back...so much can still change. You have had a bad experience but I think you just have to let this horse grow and quit critiquing him til he is late 3 and ready to back and then only critique whether he is in balance enough to be backed. Mid 4s look at him critically to see if his conformation might affect his career choice...20 months is too soon. PatO
                      ditto,

                      and this has nothing to do with ferrier work.

                      Tim
                      Sparling Rock Holsteiners
                      www.sparlingrock.com

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                      • #12
                        I've known many MANY Advanced level eventers, dressage and jumpers that toed in. I've known more UL eventers with funky conformation of all sorts.

                        Conformation is just an indication. The one horse who I've owned with the most PERFECT and ideal conformation....suffered random injury after injury...and ended up colicing and put down on the table at 7 years old.

                        My point....this is a cute colt. He's 20 months old. He will change a lot. You can pick apart the details...and you will still have no real knowledge if he will hold up for eventing....or even want to event.

                        If he's yours...just enjoy him. He will be what he will be.

                        If you are thinking of buying him...he's a gamble like all horses. But he has a cute face....do you like how he generally moves and his personality? Go with your gut and overall impression...and then have fun watching him grow and finding out what he will be.

                        Sorry to be so long winded to basically say...too early to tell and there are a lot more things to be concerned about besides lack of perfect conformation in an almost 2 year old
                        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          He's not mine yet! I have to fly out to see him and I'm a mass of nerves.

                          He's bred to be what I want I think. And if he hates to event I will have to cross that bridge when it comes, but he seems smart and bold so far.

                          Gah... so much can go wrong. Sometimes I think only about 5% of horses make it to riding age, given all the stories you read online!
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                            I've known many MANY Advanced level eventers, dressage and jumpers that toed in.
                            My mare is 16 this year, and she toes in a little. Had an unrelated pasture injury last fall, and when I had the recheck with lameness exam done before putting her back to work this spring, the vet kept saying things like "This is amazing, you never see flexions this good in a horse her age."

                            So yeah, that by itself wouldn't worry me much.
                            "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
                            -Edward Hoagland

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                            • #15
                              More bad news...from the point you buy him his future success is not about anything on him...not where things point...or his mind or any thing about what he looks like. His future success is all and only about you. Sometimes we dig ourselves a big hole or rather we put our own talent on a pedestal instead of where it really is with regard to training a young horse with talent and we just screw things up. Sometimes the horses we buy are so generous to let us repeatedly screw them up and fix them and screw them up and fix them again and we achieve our goal. Sometimes we have a great eye for talent but have a rusty old body that USED to fix rejects and malcontents...now not so much. Just saying...enjoy every minute with him...break him out to be a very very good partner so he is safe if he dosn't fit your needs or he is even beyond your talent. His future is in your hands. Good Luck. Have fun. PatO

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                              • #16
                                When a horse toes-in, their feet move in an outward arc as they travel.
                                When a horse toes-out, the hooves swing inward toward the opposing leg and here is where you can run into problems. If the toe-ing out is severe, the hoof can (and will) bang into the other leg and cause any number of injuries.
                                So, personally, I would rather see a horse toe-in slightly if I had to pick between toed-in or toed-out.
                                Be careful of allowing a farrier to do too much to "correct" the alignment because it can cause undo stress on the joints in that leg.
                                However, what really matters is how the horse looks at adulthood, as others have mentioned.
                                Best of luck, it is always nerve racking to buy a new horse, especially a youngster.
                                www.trinitysporthorses.com

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Xanthoria View Post
                                  Well my concern is the asymmetry. My fear is the toed out one will end up straight but the straight one will end up... toed in. Which I hate.

                                  Dam toed in. Dam had ringbone that shortened her career significantly. Vet said no correlation but I say vet was quite possibly wrong!
                                  xan, fwiw my farrier just made the comment that when they are growing they can get wonky.... and that most wonkiness goes away once they mature.

                                  this was in response to my direct question about my pony's light toeing out on one front... he said " nothing to worry about yet... it will probably correct itself once he is done growing"

                                  i LOVE the guy in your pics!

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                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Thanks mbm! I think he's cuter than cute... might be booking that flight this week!
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                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      And thanks everyone else too - perhaps I am overly cautious having dealt with ringbone before but I just want to be as sure as anyone can that the only thing stopping him from a great career is my inept riding
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                                      • #20
                                        If his pasterns are short, there is more concussion, so a greater chance of ringbone, but not to say it will even develop. None are perfect

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