• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

Event Announcements now available FREE to all registered users

We just reconfigured the Event Announcements forum to be available as a free service for all registered forum users. See the thread stuck at the top of that forum for more information.
2 of 2 < >

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

How do you decide if a colt is a stallion prospect? Update post 143

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How do you decide if a colt is a stallion prospect? Update post 143

    Just pondering really. How do you decide whether a colt has what it takes to be a stallion or not?

    The pondering has been triggered by my mare producing another colt instead of the filly I'd ordered. I'd love to carry her line on but she is only giving me colts.

    Sire is Silvermoon who has a very good production record with Blue Hors Matine, Succes and Night Moon all being GP dressage horses and also Shiva, an Advanced eventer. He also has a popular stallion son in Cadeau.

    My mare bloodhounded for several years clearing 1m70+ on many occasions. She also did a little showjumping (2 outings to be exact!) going double clear round 1m20 with scope for much more. She competed in dressage up to PSG and was schooling most of GP.
    Her dam's full sister was Bright and Fair who was National Champion Broodmare at Wembley (the top show in the UK).
    Her damsire Top Star sired several good eventers who competed up to international level and also the international showjumper Brookstreet Olympic Video.

    My mare proved to be tough and trainable and stayed sound from age 3 to age 16 when she was retired to be a broodmare. Her first Silvermoon foal has sold to an advanced eventing home and is still entire at present. As long as he behaves and his owners think he is worthy to be an entire he will stay that way but of course I have no idea if he will end up as a stallion that I can use in the future or not.

    This year's colt is taller than last years and more confident. I think he will end up around 16.3-17hh. He will be grey.

    This is what he looked like at 3 days old. He is eligible for grading with the SHB(GB) or the AES.

    What do you think? Stupid idea? Or keep him a colt and see how he goes? And can you explain your replies please as this is an area I know nothing about and would love to learn.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkuEOELFxdo
    Last edited by stolensilver; Jul. 3, 2011, 11:14 AM. Reason: update

  • #2
    I noticed you got a lot of views but no answers.

    In my humble opinion, at his age I feel it's simply too young to say.

    However, I've given you a couple links that may give you a better public consensus.

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/ar.../t-151098.html

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/ar.../t-229331.html

    Comment


    • #3
      Too young to say, I say, but I will say he is beautiful. Great video.
      Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

      Comment


      • #4
        Keeping a stallion depends upon your convictions and resources. If you have deep pockets, go for it. I have no clue what your resources are… for the most part standing a stallion is NOT a financially profitable venture… but if you gain some satisfaction from keeping him stallion for other reasons, by all means do so. We see repeatedly that some stallions we now regard as very important - were not well received originally, but an owner persevered, and over time the general public recognized the value of the horse. At this point he is really too young to say much one way or the other.

        I really just wanted to offer my humble opinion that he is a lovely lovely colt. I can see why you are tempted, it must be thrilling just to watch him. Frankly, if breeders did not react with passion and commitment to the animals they produced, they should not be breeding.
        Logres Farm on Facebook
        http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
        http://logresdobermans.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          If your primary goal is to continue your mare's line....and this is a nice colt (and stays a nice colt). Take a wait and see approach. If he stays mannered, you could keep him a colt until 3-4, collect and freeze him. I know a few people that did this.

          Then you can decide at that point whether to geld him or not. So you may not need to keep him a stallion to offer to the public...but can still have the material to continue your mare's lines.

          Biggest issue with this is whether having him (and his offspring) registered is important to you.

          Just a thought. I personally, no matter how nice a colt is, would keep them a stallion. But of course my mares seem to always throw fillies (and chestnut ones at that!).
          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

          Comment


          • #6
            Stolen Silver......ask yourself several questions.

            Is he as good as his father or other mature stallions that you would breed with ?

            Will anyone else want to use him ?

            Are you prepared to go the long haul and see what you may or may not have ?

            His life will most likely SUCK as a good stallion . Life will be much better as a great gelding.

            Everyone wants a stallion until they actually have one .

            Do yourself and him a favor. Tell the vet to bring a sharp knife and eventually you'll get a filly one day to carry on your line. JMHO

            Comment


            • #7
              Check with your registry of choice to help with the decision. First evaluate bloodlines, especially mare line, in my experience. A well known and well used sire will have many sons who go to stand at stud.
              Anne
              -------
              "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

              Comment


              • #8
                In reality I have never even for a nanosecond considered keeping a stallion, but if I did, he would have to have turn-out with other horses. So many stallions have pretty crappy lives because they are kept isolated most of the time.

                btw your colt is adorable!

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Thanks to everyone who has replied. There's lots to think about!

                  To reply to Not Again this colts sire Silvermoon only has one stallion son. He is a Trakehner called Cadeau and stands in Germany. There are no Silvermoon stallions anywhere else in the world.
                  The damline of this colt is incompletely recorded after the first 5 generations. He traces back to TB racehorses. The highlights of his damline are outlined in the first post. His bloodlines are uncommon but have produced international performers in both eventing and showjumping.
                  Is this positive or negative?

                  I do have access to facilities where he can grow up in a bachelor herd till he is 3 so he has the potential to learn how to be a horse and play with other colts and geldings that are a similar age to him. So I guess I could see how it goes? His full brother was sold to an eventing home and he is still entire as a yearling. Their plans are to keep his bits on as long as he deserves to keep them. I'm delighted that someone without a vested interest in my mare rates big brother as a potential stallion prospect but obviously I cannot influence whether they keep him entire or not long term. Big brother has a super temperament so far.

                  If I had the chance to get a filly that was a full sister I wouldn't bother considering keeping this foal entire. Problem is I can't get Silvermoon semen any more.

                  Perhaps the best plan is to wait and see? If he's naughty or not quality enough I will turn him into a gelding. If I find a way to get a full sister to him I'll almost certainly do the same.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It doesn't really hurt to just wait and see for now if you have the facilities. You can always go with bornfreenowexpensive's idea and be ready to cut if he can't handle the hormones.

                    That said, I have no desire to stand a stallion!
                    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just some thoughts, based upon our rather limited experience: We’ve only had four stallions over the years, and each is unique in terms of their temperaments. We have one now who is 6 years old – Sandro D. He is a gentleman in most every respect. As a matter of simple fact, you can have well behaved stallion, who has a rich full life, interacting with people and other horses… who does not act like a hormonal monster.

                      I think there are many factors that go into raising a stallion you can live with, including the temperaments they were born with and them being in an environment that allows them to live as natural a life as possible, which means being around other horses (his herd) and being out as much as possible. In my experience, stallions are sensitive and have a real sense of fairness. I think that if you treat them with respect, you will get that back in kind. We have always been firm about certain things, but I would never ever ever try to bully our guy. He is bigger and stronger than we are... so we are never involved in tests of strength or will. He responds to us because he is trained properly, not because he’s been forced or bullied. We never have a chain on his nose or engage in any of the “force-bully-force” approaches that we see sometimes with other stallions.

                      And (you knew this was coming)… we have never allowed him to be bred, so he really hasn’t a clue what he is missing. That said, if his nuts ever become a problem, they’ll be gone.

                      I think that if you value your colt’s pedigree, and have the facilities for him… don’t do anything at all unless or until it becomes necessary.
                      Logres Farm on Facebook
                      http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                      http://logresdobermans.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In my view if you decide a colt is not a stallion prospect 100% of the time you will be correct at least 99% of the time.
                        Roseknoll Sporthorses
                        www.roseknoll.net

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by YankeeLawyer View Post
                          In my view if you decide a colt is not a stallion prospect 100% of the time you will be correct at least 99% of the time.
                          Like!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            According to some statistics I recently read 60+% of stallions approved in Germany, typically as 2 1/5 years or older, were not Premium Foals.

                            You've taken a good look at the colt, and like him. So here is what I would suggest.

                            First, I'd look at the pedigree. Not what it means to you, but is this colt really extra-ordinarily well bred, in a broader sense, and does that breeding have any value other than sentimental value to you?

                            Then look at the market. Will there be a market for a stallion such as he is, if left intact?

                            Lastly, WHERE is he going to stand at stud, after somebody spends a king's ransom on his show bills, approvals fees, 100 or 30 day test, and the rest of it? This could cost quarter of a million if you do it right. Is this an international caliber horse, or just a colt you personally like?

                            If you have your own mare herd and believe in your boy, and believe in his progeny, and pray that the economy will pick up soon, keep him as a stud and see what happens.

                            Bear in mind that in US stallions are a liability and most trainers and lots of show barns don't want to have anything to do with them. Even if they are well behaved. And it's a lonely life for the stallion b/c they usually will not be turned out with others, and to keep them happy can be very expensive.

                            Done that, have that T-shirt.

                            Anna
                            www.westwiththewind.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by holsteinersrock View Post
                              According to some statistics I recently read 60+% of stallions approved in Germany, typically as 2 1/5 years or older, were not Premium Foals
                              I have not heard this before. Could you cite your source for those of us who would like to read more?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                If you have the resources to run him on for your own use and you don't care if he gets used otherwise, I would consider freezing him when he is old enough and then geld him. You already have an out of the box pedigree so will likely have to rely on performance results anyway. Freeze him and let him live and compete as a gelding.
                                Liz
                                Ainninn House Stud
                                Irish Draughts and Connemaras
                                Co. Westmeath, Ireland

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Plain Jane View Post
                                  I have not heard this before. Could you cite your source for those of us who would like to read more?
                                  Stats compiled by Dr. Nissen , breeding director of the Holsteiner Verband. I think it was 65% of all approved Holsteiner stallions were NOT premium foals. His statement ran in Pferd & Sport magazine.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    If I had a colt, "my" first requirement would be that he must have a gelding like temperment. In the field he can be a big idiot all he likes, but in hand and in close quarters with people, the colt must be a perfect sane gentleman.

                                    And then you can consider his conformation and whethere or not he checks that box or not.
                                    Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Bayhawk View Post
                                      Stats compiled by Dr. Nissen , breeding director of the Holsteiner Verband. I think it was 65% of all approved Holsteiner stallions were NOT premium foals. His statement ran in Pferd & Sport magazine.
                                      That is interesting. Thank you for sharing, I will definitely be reading up about that later this evening!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Personally I would rather geld them and wonder/regret, then deal with a stallion.
                                        "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                                        ---
                                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X