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Hanoverian bloodlines/stallions

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  • Hanoverian bloodlines/stallions

    Bloodlines gurus, I'd LOVE to hear your thoughts once more

    Okay, I've mostly exhausted both Google and CoTH threads (I think!) and still need a little help in my research. Sorry for the multitude of questions but thank-you for your time.

    Specifically, I am interested in:

    The L-line, specifically, descending to the Hanoverian stallion Lutanja (Luckner x Fanny Hill). I understand Lugano I, within that line, is quite respected as a producer of good dressage and superb show jumper horses, and that Der Lowe was quite the producer of international-caliber sport horses, but that's about all I can gather.

    Hanoverian stallion Sicka (Sender x Alpdohle). I gather Sender was a very good producer of jumpers, but how good? I can't seem to find anything re: Sicka specifically.

    I've done a lot of research on the F-line down to Winnetou (Ferdinand x Goldstunde) but cannot seem to find much info pertaining to Winnetou directly nor his damline. And what about Famosa Z?

    Lastly, there is a lot of info re: Pik As and a little less re: Pik Koenig, but there is even less that I can find re: Pia (even though I've seen and heard his name I swear a million times). Help please?

    For reference, I am looking at Wodan:
    http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/wodan7

    And also Wallenstein:
    http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/wallenstein4


    Thanks!!!!

    Eta: this and this is the mare in question (pictured at 3)

    I am mostly researching out of curiosity but am also interested in breeding her, possibly next year.
    Last edited by naturalequus; May. 12, 2011, 10:18 AM.
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

  • #2
    Personally, I don't like the W line.... Althought my experience with Hanovarians is more limited then some people...

    But I rode a few W line offspring and they were very difficult... all of them. They were all re-trains that had been trained by a BNT and maybe that could have been part of their difficulty? Suprising I was never bucked off, I did fear for my life sometimes though LOL

    I rode/trained a couple of Mattgold babies and I know people who have some too and they are SO lovely to work with! I loved them, my favorit by far!

    I've had a bit of experience with Goldschlager lines too and they were pretty good too.

    L line... I rode a Lorbas mare once who was a complete nightmare for some people, but I had no problems with her!
    "My ideal horse is the horse that I fall in love with again every morning when I see his face hanging over the stable door, looking for breakfast. " - Jim Wofford

    Comment


    • #3
      Wodan is technically an F line with Ferdinand. Winnetou is in the old AHS stallion book (circa 1982) that is on my desk. Next time I'm scanning stuff, I'll pop his page on the scanner too and add it. If you want a hi-res image, just send me an email - ellie@watermark-farm.net and I'll send it directly to you.

      Frustra II was/is a pure jumping stallion & sire. The damline is pretty antiquated at this point but Wodan was a jumping 'specialist' sire before there was such a thing. If it wasn't breeding season and show season, I'd offer to go dig in the files and pull up more info but if you can send me an email in the fall - I should have time to do it then. Sorry I can't be more help right now.

      If you go here there are options for accessing additional mareline info & offspring. It is a slightly more reliable site than all breed.

      ~Ellie
      Watermark Farm
      Blog
      Watermark Farm Facebook Fan Page
      You Tube Channel

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by Tasker View Post
        Wodan is technically an F line with Ferdinand.
        It traces back to the Thoroughbred Zemeboq but started with his great-grandson Flingarth, who produced Fling. The line was separated in W and F lines according to two Fling sons - Fiener Kerl and Flavius. Ferdinand, Winnetou, Wodan - that line is descendent from Fiener Kerl and thus is F line.

        I will definitely email - thanks!!! In the mean time, I will keep researching, too, and maybe a few others can chime in with further leads.

        If you go here there are options for accessing additional mareline info & offspring. It is a slightly more reliable site than all breed.
        Thanks, and definitely more reliable than all breed


        My mare is a little difficult but I chose her specifically due to her boldness, confidence, and presence - all the characteristics that also make her a little more challenging As I've owned and worked with others of her nature, I don't anticipate any issue and already thus far she is 'coming round'; I anticipate with some patience she will even be an ammy ride in time. Right now we've started groundwork; I'm starting her u/s alongside the client mares I am also starting u/s right now.
        ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
        ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

        Comment


        • #5
          I like a challenge too I don't like having half my ride on different horses being a bronc ride though... LOL.... It gets a little old and I get a tad bit sore from trying to stay on... Although, like I said, perhaps these particular 3 were an issue of previous bad training? I am no kidding though, they were naughty naughty! LOL
          "My ideal horse is the horse that I fall in love with again every morning when I see his face hanging over the stable door, looking for breakfast. " - Jim Wofford

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Haha, I hear ya Vic!! I love a challenge, but a safe one that includes harmony and progressive success, lol!

            Imo, yes, I would place that in the 'training' category The way I see it, every response the horse gives, the horse is telling me something, is 'talking' to me. So I read that response and address it - whether it mean (when the response is negative) I need to take a few steps back and re-cement the basics or fill in some gaps (this is where maybe with the three you mention, they may have had some gaps from previous training?), or what.

            "If a horse says no, you either asked the question wrong, or asked the wrong question"

            That's just my perspective anyhoo, works for me
            ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
            ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

            Comment


            • #7
              Do you know about this website?

              http://www.paardenfokken.nl/

              Great for reseaching motherlines.

              Winnetou specifically: http://www.paardenfokken.nl/pedigree.php?horseid=2029

              You can change it to English or click on moederlijn to see the mareline.

              Caitlin
              Caitlin
              *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
              http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

              Comment


              • #8
                I've owned two (and still own one) mares from the F-line through one sire in particular, Walter Scott (who goes back to Ferdinand).

                Both mares are difficult, but in a good way.

                VERY forward and reactive. Big spook, but not much run. (Think reining spin or BIG jump in place, but not taking off). Both mares are very anxious, don't handle change well, you have to introduce things to them SLOWLY. But once they get it, they GET it.

                I've found them to be extremely intelligent, affectionate mares that become very brave and bold once they trust their person. Also, very sound of body and athletic. My mare that I sold just oozed athleticism. I remember that mare in turnout once cantering around and couldn't decide where to go. She ended up doing 3 one-tempi's until she decided left was good. The one-tempi were smooth, natural and effortless.

                Personally, I adore the line, even though it does have a reputation of difficult. You really have to take your time with them. However, amateur level packers they will not be.

                My driving horse now (an Appaloosa sport horse mare out of a Walter Scott Hanoverian mare) is a love her or hate her horse. People either get how to handle her or don't. There's one driving trainer I cliniced who absolutely adored her and another that abhored her.

                Bottom line: I will purchase another F-line horse again.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by RedMare01 View Post
                  Do you know about this website?

                  http://www.paardenfokken.nl/

                  Great for reseaching motherlines.

                  Winnetou specifically: http://www.paardenfokken.nl/pedigree.php?horseid=2029

                  You can change it to English or click on moederlijn to see the mareline.

                  Caitlin
                  Thanks Caitlin! The website you posted is one I am half-familiar with, though I had forgotten about it. Someone kindly posted it in an earlier post... how do I change it to English though? I can't seem to figure it out, and my German was never all that advanced anyway
                  ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
                  ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    On the homepage, there is a little english flag at the top.

                    Caitlin
                    Caitlin
                    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Ah, found it, thanks! Mine doesn't have the flag but I did find a scroll-down menu with English
                      ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
                      ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ya, I totally agree with you NE!!!! I only rode them for a few months and ended up having to stop because I got pregnant... They were quite reactive though, I had only been working on very basic things because I was re-starting them and it was a complete challenge to make it around the ring at a walk without them exploding!

                        I think taking them off the farm to a different stable would have helped as well as some other things... But it would have taken ages.

                        And now that i've had a couple kids im just not into the bronc ride type horse haha
                        "My ideal horse is the horse that I fall in love with again every morning when I see his face hanging over the stable door, looking for breakfast. " - Jim Wofford

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Yikes!! I'm actually working with three of those right now (when I'm home). Previous poor training and handling so they're reactive, but at least all three are sweet It's all about the basics and not pushing them.

                          I don't even have the excuse of kids and am not fancy of the explosive type, haha! It's exhausting - it's so refreshing when I get to work with a 'fresh slate', but how often does that happen??

                          I like the sound of your approach though; too bad you didn't get to continue with those mares!
                          ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
                          ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

                          Comment

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