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New Mare! Baloubet du Rouet x Nimmerdor needs a boyfriend!

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  • #61
    Haha, that is funny. If it was that simple we would see a lot of succesful breeders breeding olympic qualifyers and you know that is not true. To humor you with your number idea, why not breed with lets say the top 10, why go all the way to the 29th and 50th?
    www.immunallusa.com
    www.rainbowequus.com Home of stallions that actually produced champion hunter, jumper and dressage offspring and now also champion eventers

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    • #62
      Touché, edgar!
      Sentinel Hill Farm
      Home of VDL Windsor H

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #63
        Hee hee!

        How are your gorgeous boys doing, Edgar? I have always had a fondness for Landy and I have 2 Swedish mares and always get tempted by Pablo too.
        ~Christina~ Keur-Wood Stables
        Breeders of Dutch and Swedish Warmbloods
        Standing approved Buckskin Swedish Warmblood Stallion, CATAPULT
        http://www.superiorwarmblood.com

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Edgar View Post
          Haha, that is funny. If it was that simple we would see a lot of succesful breeders breeding olympic qualifyers and you know that is not true. To humor you with your number idea, why not breed with lets say the top 10, why go all the way to the 29th and 50th?
          Those were my thoughts also.
          Roseknoll Sporthorses
          www.roseknoll.net

          Comment


          • #65
            Very clever, but to educate you a little, here are the reasons why you need go as far down as number fifty:

            Quidam de Revel - 7500€ 10 straws (fertlilty is now being questioned)
            Darco - dead
            Carthago Z - Infertile
            Burggraaf - dead, frozen questionable
            Concorde - still alive, but frozen is now questionable
            Heartbreaker - alive, but frozen is no highly questionable
            Libero H - dead
            Caretino - Karen's got some, I can't understand why the US isn't using it
            Cassini I - you can't get
            Indoctro - still alive

            So there's your top ten [edit]! Are you using any of them?

            Papillon Rouge - withdrawn last year
            Contender - you can't get
            Concerto II - I think is dead
            Argentinus - dead, frozen crap
            Le Tot de Semilly - alive and still covering mares at 31
            Voltaire - dead, but you can get his semen
            Accord II - I think he died last year
            Calido I - alive and you can get his semen
            Emilion - you can get
            Indorado - you can get

            Top 20 don't look so much better!

            Animo - ????
            Corrado I - you can't get
            Grandeur - dead
            Nabab de Reve - super stallion still alive
            Polydor - dead
            Skippy II - dead
            Cavalier - dead
            Lasino - dead
            Baloubet du Rouet - 4000€ 8 straws
            Calvaro Z - super stallion and available
            Cento - not easy but a great stallion
            Corofino - limited breedings and look where he is
            Diamant de Semilly - speaks for himself
            Jus de Pomme - dead
            Landetto - balls cut off and sold to the US.

            I understand that highlighting top stallions acheivements is a little uncomfortable for owners who's stallions are nowhere near the top 500. And that is suits stallion owners to give the impression that breeding is a complicated thing, it is not. One offspring in the top 2000 does not make a stallion "World Class", which has become the new description of "Average", thanks to [bull]. This above, is the definition of World Class.

            You can get semen from 13 of these top 30, when you take out dead, withdrawn, infertile or crap semen. That is why you need to go down to 30. Simple enough for you?

            The OP came here to be informed, not to see snide comments, any chance of sticking to the question?
            Last edited by Moderator 1; Apr. 17, 2008, 09:24 AM. Reason: language

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Edgar View Post
              Haha, that is funny. If it was that simple we would see a lot of succesful breeders breeding olympic qualifyers and you know that is not true. To humor you with your number idea, why not breed with lets say the top 10, why go all the way to the 29th and 50th?
              I totally agree with you. There are a ton of nice stallions out there that haven't made it to the top 30 or they might never b/c of other factors that prevent them from getting there.You are right, breeding is not that simple. If it were, more ppl would own grand prix horses. I have seen horses with top notch pedigrees that only have made it to the A/Os. If what Zangersheide was correct, then those horses should have been grand prix horses or grand prix material...which they were not. Breeding to a stallion in the top 30, might increase your chance, but there's never a guarantee. You would be better suited to find a stallion that matches your mare. There are so many factors that go into making a great foal. Your odds of breeding a nice foal will go up if you choose one in the top 30, but don't think breeding to one of the top 50 stallions will guarantee you a grand prix horse and it would be such a shame to rule out a horse that hadn't made it onto that list, that might have been a better fit for your mare.

              Comment


              • #67
                I know of an Argentinus foal born here just this year from Judy Yancey. Semen cant be that horrible as she was selling it.
                www.svhanoverians.com

                "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Zangersheide View Post

                  I understand that highlighting top stallions acheivements is a little uncomfortable for owners who's stallions are nowhere near the top 500. And that is suits stallion owners to give the impression that breeding is a complicated thing, it is not. One offspring in the top 2000 does not make a stallion "World Class", which has become the new description of "Average", thanks to bullshit. This above, is the definition of World Class.
                  You can get semen from 13 of these top 30, when you take out dead, withdrawn, infertile or crap semen. That is why you need to go down to 30. Simple enough for you?
                  The OP came here to be informed, not to see snide comments, any chance of sticking to the question?
                  Wow, lovely.
                  Roseknoll Sporthorses
                  www.roseknoll.net

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    .............to clarify, in the following post, the words you and your, are not designed to aim any comment at any individual. They are to be taken in the "royal" context.

                    This is about apples and oranges, which happens all the time on this board when you have people who breed for performance, versus those who breed for pretty. The second type don't interest me, the first type is where I sit. That doesn't make me any better than anyone else, but performance is based on fact/statistics/results, thus I take note of these in order to make a decision. Pretty and movement are about opinion, and we all know the saying about opinions and a####les...........

                    The rankings are rankings, period. The stallions there are there for a reason, that is to say that they have produced jumping horses which are in the top 2500, period.

                    I haven't gone into detail about production versus performance, because that information isn't readily available across the whole range.

                    If you can't find a suitable stallion from those available in the top 30, then yes, you should look at the top 50. If you can't find a single suitable stallion out of those guys, then either your mare's not worth breeding from, or you don't know what your doing.

                    You can find the criticism in the above posts in just about any walk of life. Those who aren't there and don't have the skills/ability/success etc etc knocking those who have and are there. I guess that's just life.

                    BTW one foal does not a summer make.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Wow I am shocked by the venom in your post and I truly hope that you are not just a tad jealous of Edgar's fabulous boys. Rude is rude and it certainly did not help in the discussion. If you really think that just breeding by the numbers is the way to go then have at it. As we all know most buyers/riders are not of a caliber to ride at the highest levels and unless you are supplying a top ULR with a horse then your chances of having one perform at that level whether even capable is NIL. I prefer to have a lovely moving/looking and capable horse. Scoff if you want but I am sure that most of the stallions that I chosen have the potential and have it in their background. I am quite sure the Germans wouldn't bother if they thought otherwise.

                      Who says you can't have the whole enchilada...............and as a side note alot of the top 20 move like CRAP and are conformationally challenged!

                      Personally speaking I am holding out for ARKO. DREAM BIG DREAM BIG.

                      I think you owe Edgar an apology. Just because a board is anonymous is not a reason to be patently rude.

                      CHEERS
                      Last edited by europa; Apr. 17, 2008, 09:37 AM.
                      The rider casts his heart over the fence,
                      the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

                      –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I'll stay out of the snarkfest. Edgar's stallions are well-bred, proven performers and producers and he is, from all accounts, a great person to work with. Kudos.

                        That said, here's a vote for Luk Z.

                        FWIW, out trainer's cousin was just visiting from Europe and he has personal experience with Luk Z and Luk Z offspring. I asked about the offspring. He said, you have to raise them right; you cannot let them just run in a field until they are three. But if you raise them right they are very nice horses. He also says his foals are "beautiful models" (that is he puts his conformation and look on them) and passes on his jump and style. He also told us that the foals are quite valuable.

                        The stallion himself had a great deal of success in competition. And IIRC his offspring have done well in young horse competitions.

                        I really like your mare a lot but she is, MHO, a bit old-fashioned. She is the old horizontal WB mare model, not the new type. I would like her to a more modern stallion with a bit more blood. This is not a knock against her! Older-type mares like her are great foundations and she is bred to the hilt. I'm a huge fan of the whole Baloubet, Galoubet, Alme continuum and Nimmerdor goes without saying as well.

                        I would think long and hard about Luk Z. He is probably better known in Europe than here but I think he is a superb stallion.

                        Sue
                        "Horsemanship is not merely a matter of bodily skills, but is based on scholarship and, therefore, is a matter of the mind and intellect." Charles de Kunffy

                        http://www.equiimages.com

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                        • #72
                          Please avoid the personal commentary and keep the discussion respectful. Thanks.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            You must mean Lux Z and he is wonderful! Both he and Lupicor are LOVELY LOVELY
                            The rider casts his heart over the fence,
                            the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

                            –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Argentinus does not have good semen. Judy will tell you that herself. She is always pleasantly surprized to have a pregnancy and I believe she tried many times without success. She happens to really love the stallion as do many others and is willing to take the risk.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #75
                                Holy smokes, folks! I was just looking for some suggestions here and everyone's entitled to their own opinion but please, this was not meant as a stallion-bashing forum. If you noticed, the stallions I'm considering mostly ARE NOT in the top 30. I had mentioned Chin Chin, For Pleasure, Couleur Rubin and Chin Quin. These are stallions who have or have not been showing long, producing much or otherwise. The point is that I'm looking to get some concrete suggestions and I appreciate any and all stallions that are suggested whether I agree or not. Please if you have suggestions by all means keep them coming. But in the same sense, please refrain from pointing out flaws (justified or not) in other stallions. I honestly don't care if semen quality is crap (good to know so I can prepare for spending more) because in the end, I will choose a stallion, crap semen, dead, not in the top 2,000 etc. based on what I feel is best for my mare and her future offspring.
                                ~Christina~ Keur-Wood Stables
                                Breeders of Dutch and Swedish Warmbloods
                                Standing approved Buckskin Swedish Warmblood Stallion, CATAPULT
                                http://www.superiorwarmblood.com

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  The first snarky comment came from Edgar if you read back. Nothing I had to say was personal in the slightest. You are correct, we are all entitled to an opinion, thus why is it that Edgar is able to make the comment he made and not get picked up on it?

                                  In which world can you knock breeding from stallions in the top fifty, and think it's OK? It's hilarious to watch all these "breeders of amateur horses" trash performance stallions, and then bitch about crap prices for their offspring, and then bitch about riders going to Europe to buy their performance horses..........................read that last sentence again twenty times and see if you get the point (it's staring you in the face BTW).

                                  Now read this...............

                                  alot of the top 20 move like CRAP and are conformationally challenged!
                                  ..................and....................

                                  Personally speaking I am holding out for ARKO
                                  In the same post?????????????????????????????????????????????? ??


                                  and then..............................

                                  I honestly don't care if semen quality is crap (good to know so I can prepare for spending more)


                                  I truly hope that you are not just a tad jealous of Edgar's fabulous boys
                                  Dear god, so do I.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Okay, to get this back on track, I want to reiterate that I don't think you can go wrong with Indoctro. I know that he wasn't on your original list but I personally think he is a fantastic horse. Super proven for producing international talent and a bonus is that he has FANTASTIC frozen semen. I used two doses last year on two different cycles and had two healthy foals this year; one of which was an embryo transfer. If marketability matters to you at all, one of the foals sold in-utero to a Grand Prix rider and the other I kept for myself, but could have easily sold, as I had several people making offers for her.

                                    That being said, I'm breeding the same mare to Contendro this year, as I really like his ability and type. However, I don't put his production record in the same league as Indoctro, but I think given time we will find that he is capable of producing international talent.
                                    Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
                                    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Some people don't know when to quit.
                                      The rider casts his heart over the fence,
                                      the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

                                      –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by Zangersheide View Post
                                        The first snarky comment came from Edgar if you read back. Nothing I had to say was personal in the slightest. You are correct, we are all entitled to an opinion, thus why is it that Edgar is able to make the comment he made and not get picked up on it?
                                        Actually, to this reader, Edgar's comment did not seem snarky at all, but realistic (ie, about breeding Olympic horses) and humorous at the end.

                                        Your comments come across much more strongly and are not very diplomatic. I may agree with what you say, but there are slightly better ways to say it.
                                        Kris
                                        www.edgewoodmeadowfarm.com
                                        Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/edgewoodmeadowfarm

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Edgewood.....have you got any new photos of your Pablo filly....would love to see what she looks like now?
                                          The rider casts his heart over the fence,
                                          the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

                                          –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart

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