Breeding a mare without stallions

I lost my stallion last fall and no longer have a stud at my farm to use for teasing. My vet seems concerned that my mares will not come in and cycle properly and I should think about sending them to another farm that has studs. I never really used the stallion for a direct tease to the mare, I always used a very studdy gelding that I had anyway. I do not feel like taking on the expense of sending my mares out to another farm for one thing and have always had my mares cycle even when a stallion was not around. Wondering if any of you have had your vets make this remark?

[okggo]

They cycle without stallions around. We chemically short cycled my on mare, and there are several methods to do this now. An experienced repro vet should be able to tell when they will ovulate after short cycling, no stallion needed.

We are teasing our other two just b/c it is a bit cheaper and have a great teaser handy, but many folks breed without boys on the farm.

[acottongim]

I'm sure Kathy will chime in about P and E therapy - which I'm actually going to do on one of my problem mares this year. That will guarantee when she ovulates to heck with a stallion LOL.

All of my mares will tease off of each other or one of the geldings so I don't have to worry about stallions and never have - I did have a country vet tell me that one time (about having a stallion around) then was amazed when I took the hussy to a gelding (who isn't studdy) and she teased on him. He doesn't tell me I need a stallion anymore LOL.

Do what works for you.

[ThirdCharm]

Is this vet a horse vet or does he do guinea pigs too? :-D

Never heard of mares not cycling b/c there were no boys around. Now, they may not SHOW that they are in heat.... but any vet worth his salt knows how to tell approx. where a mare is in her cycle by u/s or palpating.... and there is always lutalyse.


Jennifer

[Iron Horse Farm]

How old is this vet? LOL!

I have been breeding seriously for about 12 years now and we have NEVER had a stallion. Stallions come in those nice little white boxes that the FedEx guy brings!

I would think seriously about finding a repro vet.

[Daventry]

Is this vet a horse vet or does he do guinea pigs too? :-D

Never heard of mares not cycling b/c there were no boys around. Now, they may not SHOW that they are in heat.... but any vet worth his salt knows how to tell approx. where a mare is in her cycle by u/s or palpating.... and there is always lutalyse.


Jennifer

Agreed! Your vet is sorrily misinformed, or else, he's trying to persuade you to move them to a different location out of convenience, etc.

We have a stallion on the property, but we DO NOT ever use him for teasing. He has a tough enough job as it is and the last thing he needs is to be frustrated. We also ship a lot of semen and teasing can potentially bring down the concentration of their semen. Maybe not a concern for a younger stallion but can potentially affect the concentration of an 18 year old stallion at the end of breeding season!

Like you, we've always used a very studly gelding on the property for teasing and it works great. As others have said, mares will cycle properly, whether they are the only horse on the property or they live with a goat....you just may not notice the heat cycle as clearly. Most mares will gladly tease off of other mares or geldings, it's just a matter of keeping an eye on them.

[Alagirl]

For a long time we didn't even have a gelding on the farm!

granted since that was breeding to a stallion in town, we'd load up the mare once she was showing signs of heat and hauled her to the stallion...but by that time she was already 'cycling' and the action could take place on the very first date....

Astonishing how quickly the barn filled up....

[Equine Reproduction]

I lost my stallion last fall and no longer have a stud at my farm to use for teasing. My vet seems concerned that my mares will not come in and cycle properly and I should think about sending them to another farm that has studs.

Uh...err...well...he's wrong. I'm sure every woman on this board will tell you that she'll cycle with or without a man around <lol>....

Wondering if any of you have had your vets make this remark?

Not one that I would plan on using to assist me with breeding my horses. Find a vet that is a bit better versed in equine reproduction. By dealing with someone that isn't, you have the very real possibility of spending a lot more than you would if you sent your mares to a farm that does have studs.

As acottingim noted, you can always use P&E (progesterone and estradiol) to target ovulation. You end up with a very tight window of ovulation - with or without a stallion present <grin>.

But seriously, as I stated above and as others noted, find vet that "is" more experienced in equine reproduction. Working with a vet that isn't can end up being a really, really expensive proposition. Believe me, I know. It's probably the number one reason I'm doing what I'm doing now. $12,000 in vet bills and not one pregnancy.

Good luck!

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[goodmorning]

I have a couple questions, I think they will help Philly girl too. Is there a specific time during a mares heat cycle when they typically ovulate? We have 3 stallions where I work, and a 2yr old colt, so it's quite easy to tell when the mares are in heat. One is such a hussie that she managed to escape her stall and parade the 'stallion row' - I think she was the teaser in that case: lol: (Of course this did not last longer then 2 minutes, but it was quite shocking ) And during their 30 day heat cycle after foaling, is the time of ovulation even more narrow?

[eqsiu]

Kathy said it all...

We never had a stallion. When we first noticed the mares coming into heat in the spring, we took 'em to the vet for an ultrasound. Based on where they were then, we scheduled the next one and started planning our season. A good vet (or you can do the reading) will be able to calculate follicle growth and when you need to start monitoring the next cycle for breeding (so you don't cause irritation by over-ultrasounding).

[Valentina_32926]

I ONLY have mares on my farm and they regularly cycle without even a gelding within 1/2 mile.

[Tiki]

Same as Valentina. Mares only on my farm and I have no problem getting them pregnant. You need a new vet - preferably one experienced in equine reproduction, not whatever he breeds.

[Equilibrium]

I have a couple questions, I think they will help Philly girl too. Is there a specific time during a mares heat cycle when they typically ovulate? We have 3 stallions where I work, and a 2yr old colt, so it's quite easy to tell when the mares are in heat. One is such a hussie that she managed to escape her stall and parade the 'stallion row' - I think she was the teaser in that case: lol: (Of course this did not last longer then 2 minutes, but it was quite shocking ) And during their 30 day heat cycle after foaling, is the time of ovulation even more narrow?

That had me laughing, parading herself down stallion row! I had a yearling TB filly that escaped her stall last year. I woke up and heard all this squealing. Went out to discover she had her head and neck in 17 hand Quillan Hill's stable. He's a gelding and he was cowering in the back as if to say, please get her away from me!

We don't have stallions either. Sometimes I will use my gelding as he's very good but I have 2 mares going off to stud tomorrow and Wednesday. Neither one of them has been teased or helped chemically. They are just ready to go!

Terri

[Equine Reproduction]

I have a couple questions, I think they will help Philly girl too. Is there a specific time during a mares heat cycle when they typically ovulate?

Usually 24 hours before the end of their estrus display. But, that's not an absolute (like anything with horses "is").

And during their 30 day heat cycle after foaling, is the time of ovulation even more narrow?

Typically, the closer it gets to the summer solstice, the shorter the estrus cycle becomes, but not a huge difference.

Hope that helps!

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[Mozart]

I don't know that I would entirely discount the beneficial effect of having a stallion on the farm though...I know of more than one long time breeder who thinks it helps "get things going". Just think of all those pheromones floating around in the air...

Not crucial though...

[Altamont Sport Horses]

A stallion's presence isn't necessary. It simply makes the mares show more prominently so you can pick up on it. But many mares will show to geldings, mares, a wood post. One of my mares will squat and pee in the middle of the pasture if you say her name. And honestly, I an usually tell when my mare is in heat just by her smell. The urine smells distinctly different. I've taken a mare to the vet for breeding based solely on this. Of course he keeps her there at the clinic, ultrasounds, etc. but at least I know we are darn close when I can smell it.

And if you have a hard time pinpointing her cycle because she isn't teasing off any other horses then you can have your vet ultrasound to see where she is in her cycle and give lutalyse if necessary. But I agree, your vet doesn't sound like he is very knowledgeable in equine reproduction.

[Foxtrot's]

I just have girls here, too. I was told when breeding with a Hilltop stallion that the estrous is stronger and comes in more naturally with a fellow around. (words to that effect, anyway) so I moved her up to a boarding barn where they have pony stallions, and she showed immediately. Guess it can't hurt. But the girls still do come in heat regardless.

[Touchstone Farm,Ky]

My mares cycle when I put the Equitaner in the barn aisle <g> Never have used a teaser . You just need a good vet who can read an ultrasound.

[FriesianX]

Hahahaha, I read the TITLE of the post and thought, huh, an immaculate conception? As far as I know, you always need the stallion to contribute They don't need to be ON SITE, but you do need use of his sperm...

MOST breeders are mare owners, just ask Mr. FedEx who is delivering all the blue containers. Very few have stallions on site. As for a mare with silent heat - they often won't show to a stallion anymore than they will to anything else. I have one of those - but an ultrasound, or even a palpation will tell you, yep, she's ready... And, if you really know your mare, you'll learn to read the signs too - I've also noticed a change in the urine AND even my "silent heat" mare gets a different expression, very soft eyed and more social when she's in heat.

[Equine Reproduction]

I just have girls here, too. I was told when breeding with a Hilltop stallion that the estrous is stronger and comes in more naturally with a fellow around. (words to that effect, anyway)

Won't make them cycle stronger or change the "natural" progression, but it can cause a mare that does not display to display more strongly. It also can be beneficial in that it does cause the mare to release endogenous oxytocin which will help with uterine clearance issues. But otherwise, it's just not necessary in this day and age to even have a stallion around <smile>.

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com