• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Color question...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Color question...

    Just wondering if any of our color gurus here know if there is a technical term for the metallic sheen some breeds have... the Akhal Teke for instance. I thought I remembered stumbling across an Andalusian breeder's site that referred to the gene as "pearl" but I did not save it and I'll have to try to look around for it again... what are the other breeds known to carry the same coat characteristics?
    \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-

  • #2
    There is a newly identified gene which is pearl, and that does put a metallic sheen on, but I'm not sure that's the same as an Akhal Teke or the 'copper penny' chettys.

    Pearl is 'invisible' on it's own, but when put with ONE creme gene, resembles a double dilute.

    Champagne has some very interesting effects on coat, and might be also what you are thinking of...

    And then there are just the 'metallic' chestnuts... my guy is one, his white is iridescent like the belly of a rainbow trout... and his chestnut is like a brand new penny. I am SUCH a sucker for it. I'm *dying* to see if his son is--sire and dam both had the 'glow'... but won't really know until he sheds this year if he's got it or not.
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

    Comment


    • #3
      From what I ahve heard both Pearl and champange CAN do that mattalic sheen to a coat that is seen on Tekes BUT it is not what causes it in Tekes
      Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
      http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        My interest was peaked because of a couple of Arabians I have seen with this type of shimmer to their coats, including one of my mares (not as intense as the Akhal Teke, but obvious). Since the cream gene is absent in Arabian coat genetics it is probably doubtful that a pearl gene is responsible for the sheen... any other thoughts?
        \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sakura View Post
          My interest was peaked because of a couple of Arabians I have seen with this type of shimmer to their coats, including one of my mares (not as intense as the Akhal Teke, but obvious). Since the cream gene is absent in Arabian coat genetics it is probably doubtful that a pearl gene is responsible for the sheen... any other thoughts?
          If I had pictures I might be able to help. Although being an Arab does significantly lower the possibilities to almost zero of it being any dilute or modifying gene, but I would love to see. I could also show it to some people that would be able to help even more.
          Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
          http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by RiddleMeThis View Post
            If I had pictures I might be able to help. Although being an Arab does significantly lower the possibilities to almost zero of it being any dilute or modifying gene, but I would love to see. I could also show it to some people that would be able to help even more.
            My mare is still pretty woolly right now, but I noticed it yesterday after I washed her legs (very icky when she is in heat ). Here is a photo of her from last October. Even though she had been recently body clipped she still has a great shine to her coat.

            I have also noticed other Arabians with similar bloodlines that have the same coat quality (started a thread on an Arab forum to see if any info could be found there too... seems there are quite a few bloodlines that have this characteristic). It is nowhere near as brilliant as the Teke, but definitly obvious (especially in person).

            This is the only photo of another Arabian I can find that even comes close to showing what I'm talking about, the horse looks shiny and well groomed more than metallic... http://www.horsetalk.ca/alada.jpeg
            \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-

            Comment


            • #7
              I've had a couple of Thoroughbreds that have shown it also. One was a bright bay colt and the other is a chestnut mare I currently have. Hers is a golden metallic. Her sire is supposed to have a sabino gene and has tons of white. She has her share of white, too. Don't know if that's important or not.
              PennyG

              Comment


              • #8
                Our buckskin stallion is very dark but has a definite metallic sheen to his tan areas - it especially shows where it roans into the sooty areas. I have always wondered what causes this bc it is unlike any normal glossy-healthy coat that I've seen. His first buckskin colt also looks this way. I wouldn't say that it makes him look like a double dilute, but that may be just bc he is so sooty.

                I love the color but it can be a bit frustrating for me as a photographer - it is a hard thing to capture and his tan areas often reflect so much that they 'blow out'.

                The top 3 photos on this page shows it pretty well:
                http://zeefroggie.com/Pages/Horses/Y...Liberty_1.html

                As does the top one on this page:
                http://zeefroggie.com/Pages/Horses/Y...rtraits_2.html

                His breeder, Gwen, also posts here occasionally - she may have some insight into what causes it genetically since she has worked w/ dilutes extensively. I know I'd love to know more about it!
                Blacktree Farm
                Lessons, Training & Sporthorse Sales.
                Blacktree Studio
                Graphic Design, Web Design & Photography.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I too would be interested to learn more about this. Years ago, an Arabian farm I worked at had a Polish (I believe), bay mare that was matalic. In her case, it was very distinct from just a shiny coat.

                  She was a broodmare and not groomed like a show horse, yet you could even see that metalic glow when she was dirty. I never tired of looking at her. It was just so striking. I've always wondered what caused it. As far as I know, she didn't pass it on to any of her offspring.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My understanding of the tekes is that the sheen comes from the structure of their hair follicles. They have a smaller clear core and a larger translucent outer covering. The structure actually refracts light, and can also redirect and focus it.
                    Celtic Pride Farm
                    www.celticpridefarm.com
                    Become a fan on Facebook!

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by okggo View Post
                      My understanding of the tekes is that the sheen comes from the structure of their hair follicles. They have a smaller clear core and a larger translucent outer covering. The structure actually refracts light, and can also redirect and focus it.
                      Very interesting... but it raises another question... Why do only some horses display the sparkle but not all, if it is dominant in one breed such as the Teke? Or are there only certain colors that display it best like the metallic dun as opposed to perhaps black?
                      \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I believe certain colors, particularly golden based (pally, buckskin, gold champ) it just shows a heck of a lot more.

                        I also think hormones have a lot to do with the glow. Ever notice how some stallions (of any breed) just radiate? And of course nutrition, grooming, etc. So a combination of all those working together.

                        I can say with mares, I've noticed a lot more sheen when they are pregnant, including increased dapples, so another plug for the hormonal effect.
                        Celtic Pride Farm
                        www.celticpridefarm.com
                        Become a fan on Facebook!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The only reference I have seen to what this is called is a "satin" gene. In mice and rabbits, the satin gene produces a hollow hair shaft, like the ATs. Champagne horses often seem to have that sheen to them that is not just from a healthy shine - likely from the "satin" factor.
                          ______________________________
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Champagne...my hubby boarded with a breeder of champagnes for awhile and had one of his own. I did not think he was any more radiant then any other horse with a nice summer coat and in the winter he dulled down like the rest. Of all the ones at that barn, maybe one seemed to have the natural glow and the rest not so much so. So I think champagne in combination with something else, like the different follicle would produce that glow (and it stands our more b/c of the color) then just champagne in and of itself. But just my impression of the few I have seen.
                            Celtic Pride Farm
                            www.celticpridefarm.com
                            Become a fan on Facebook!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Right, did not mean to imply that it was champagne causing the sheen, just that outside of the ATs, champagne colors (and probably some more than others) seem more prone to having the hollow hair shaft/satin than other colors. I would think too there might be varying degrees of hollowness? *shrug*
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                My thought is that there is a genetic factor that causes it-like the satin gene in rodents. But it seems that horses with visible phaeomelanin (not black or really dark horses) show it better. You can really get that gold glitter shine (as opposed to the glassy shine that comes from good health and grooming). If someone was really bored and wanted a genetics project, they could do some comparative studies, but I wouldn't know where on the genome to start looking.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by ExtraHannah View Post
                                  I too would be interested to learn more about this. Years ago, an Arabian farm I worked at had a Polish (I believe), bay mare that was matalic. In her case, it was very distinct from just a shiny coat.

                                  She was a broodmare and not groomed like a show horse, yet you could even see that metalic glow when she was dirty. I never tired of looking at her. It was just so striking. I've always wondered what caused it. As far as I know, she didn't pass it on to any of her offspring.
                                  That is how it is w/ our boy, it shows even when he's dirty, fuzzy for winter, in bad light, etc. Weird but cool.
                                  Blacktree Farm
                                  Lessons, Training & Sporthorse Sales.
                                  Blacktree Studio
                                  Graphic Design, Web Design & Photography.

                                  Comment

                                  Working...
                                  X