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Use of Landgraf in linebreeding on dam side

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  • #1

    Use of Landgraf in linebreeding on dam side

    I have been planning for 2012 and have a South Pacific x Landgraf mare that I was considering breeding to Corland next year (she is getting bred to Banderas this year). I own the semen but don't feel comfortable assuming it is a good match as I do not know about linebreeding Landgraf only on the dam side and that close. Does anyone have any experience/knowledge about this? I have heard that it can be very hit or miss but not much else.
    www.jazcreek.com
    Specialized Equine Rehabilitation, Reproduction, and Fitness in the Wine Country of Northern California
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  • #2
    http://sakurahillfarm.com/horses.php?HOID=46We have a mare that is line bred to Landgraf I. We have been told that the doubling up of Landgraf I in her pedigree may have something to with her being sligtly straight behind. That being said, we have also been told that slightly straight hind legs in a jumper is not a terrible thing.

    Pedigree and information on our mare
    Ryu Equestrian & Facebook Page
    Breeding Horses Today, for the Equestrian Sport of Tomorrow.
    Osteen & Gainesville, Florida.

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    • #3
      I have been taught not to linebreed on Landgraf, b/c of the aforementioned hind-leg issues. I'm sure, like most things in breeding, that there are exceptions.
      Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

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      • Original Poster
        #4
        Hillside, do you have any more info, or suggestions for this South Pacific x Landgraf mare?
        www.jazcreek.com
        Specialized Equine Rehabilitation, Reproduction, and Fitness in the Wine Country of Northern California

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        • #5
          Line breeding Landgraf is a no-no.

          There are LOTS of proven lines that compliment landgraf in Dutch and Holstein breeding (Grannus being one of the older ones used in Dutch breeding, so a plus for Banderas ) That said, I'd probably want the mare to have a nice walk based off the pedigree and nothing else.

          Save your Corland for the right mare!! It will be well worth the extra wait!!

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          • #6
            Oh and don't forget that when linebreeding to strive for "sex balanced" linebreeding for best results.

            Take a look at any of the famous Holsteiner lines for an excellent lesson in proper linebreeding (you'll probably never see the famous Landgraf line bred there).

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by JazCreekInc. View Post
              Hillside, do you have any more info, or suggestions for this South Pacific x Landgraf mare?
              I'm sorry, I'm not great at suggestions w/out photos, details, etc. I'm also not overly familiar with South Pacific and what he crosses best with. However, I have a Landino/Pilot mare who has certainly inherited the very straight hind leg. It has become straighter as she has aged (she is now 18). I, oddly, enough last bred her to Banderas and got a really nice colt. She is back in foal to him for 2012. In that case I think the cross was a good one. But Landgraf is/was very popular and it shouldn't be too hard to research what crosses have been good with your particular type of mare. I like looking at the Holsteiner verband site to see what crosses are producing approved stallions and sport-horses and they have the pedigrees right there for easy access.
              Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

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              • #8
                We did it once in 3 x 4. Nor problems and a very scopey, sound sporthorse came out

                http://www.paardenfokken.nl/pedigree...37&maxniveau=5

                I would not risk it closer however.

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                • #9
                  It can be done, but it isn't desirable. Double Landgraf does happen though from time to time. Upright hind legs are not desirable in Jumpers, however they are excepted when they come with very good jump, as in Voltaire and Landgraf. Double Landgraf is overlooked or the concern is lower when the mare has very good hind leg scores and/or the stallion does too. If you know your mare, and you know how the sire breeds you can take these risks, when the advantages to breeding to the aforementioned stallion out way the risk. As was mentioned it is rare, but will become more common as Landgraf is found in so many Holsteiners at least once.

                  Tim
                  Sparling Rock Holsteiners
                  www.sparlingrock.com

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    I have a Calato x Lacapo x Carneval mare that has double Landgraf somewhat close up: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/june8
                    She is a retired grand prix horse, and should have her second foal in mid May. Her Capitol influence is pretty strong, there is a video of her on my website if you're bored. Her hind end angles are fine, I would not consider her too straight and it is far from the most important thing I look for in a potential stallion for her.
                    However, the difficult thing with this mare is finding a Holsteiner stallion that will work for her without adding more Landgraf (or Capitol). So, if you're thinking generationally and you get a filly, how will you breed that filly down the road?
                    www.newstandardsporthorses.com

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                    • Original Poster
                      #11
                      Thank you everyone... I was thinking of heading more towards Carthago/Capitol for the mare upon doing more research. It is very difficult to find much information about South Pacific offspring. He was so popular here in CA about 10 years ago but very little information.

                      The mare is a bit long and straight and I had heard the same thing from others so I agree with flyracing, I will save my Corland for another mare.

                      I am hoping to post some pictures but have not gotten any yet. Any experience/info for South Pacific offspring would be greatly appreciated.
                      www.jazcreek.com
                      Specialized Equine Rehabilitation, Reproduction, and Fitness in the Wine Country of Northern California

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        In my blog are photos of Antares, a colt by Apiro out of a Landkoenig/LeChampion mare. He is owned by a friend of mine. I haven't checked to see if Apiro has any L but the mom sure does. The very bottom dam line is Trakehner and comes through in the pretty head.
                        www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

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                        • #13
                          www.allbreedpedigree.com/contester+ii

                          A good example of good German breeding with Landgraf.
                          The result is an approved stallion competing FEI dressage with the bloodlines to jump the moon and a superb temperament.
                          JW Sporthorses
                          Home to Contester II
                          (Contender/Lancetto)
                          http://www.facebook.com/pages/JW-Spo...s/256565069298

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                          • #14
                            This is why breeders need eyes, not just read pedigrees

                            One stallion's influence in the 3rd and 4th generations is fairly minimal. I have had great success with Landgraf line-breeding even in much closer relations. I just like the combination of power, jumping ability and temperament with the movement the Landgrafs offer. There are some conformational traits you need to avoid, but knowing the strengths and weaknesses of both the stallion and the mare on can avoid those easily.
                            Andras
                            http://www.prairiepinesfarm.com
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4SfHHhoc_8
                            http://www.andrasszieberthtraining.blogspot.com

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                            • #15
                              You might check out Harley (Heartbreaker x Carthago). He is more compact and what a jumper!

                              Looking forward to the pictures. I can check with VDL to see what they recommend when you get pictures.

                              Kathy
                              Majestic Gaits-Dutch Warmbloods,#1 USEF Dressage Sporthorse Breeder. #1 KWPN-NA Jumpers.Standing Navarone,Schroeder,Dante MG.VDL Frozen.

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