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Has the Sandro Hit craze run its course?

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  • Has the Sandro Hit craze run its course?

    I’ve been talking to various breeders here and in Germany, and am not hearing of too many folks breeding to Sandro Hit line stallions these days. Sir Donnerhall seems to still get mentioned fairly frequently, but not so many of the others.

    From what I am hearing, the pendulum is swinging back toward the solid producing Donnerhall, Rubinstein I, and Florestan lines. Bolero, too, primarily through Belissimo M. And some are adding some Dutch blood (a la Jazz).

    What about COTH breeders? Any of you folks using SH stallions this year?

  • #2
    I like Sandro Hit and many of his sons. I will definitely be using Sandro Hit or Stedinger at some point.
    Kim
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    • #3
      I have one dose of Sandro Hit in inventory, and am awaiting a couple doses of Sir Donnerhall.
      There are several other SH line stallions on my wish list (notably Scolari and Sarkozy). I think the line produces attractive, rideable youngsters, crossed with a complementary mare.
      Sunny Days Hanoverians
      http://www.sunnydayshanoverians.com

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      • #4
        I love mine, particularly my Stedinger kids.
        Roseknoll Sporthorses
        www.roseknoll.net

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        • #5
          I still like the S line for what they consistantly bring to the equation : beautiful front end mechanics, lovely types with long legs, excellent canters and often a dark coat. With the right mare an S line stallion can work magic.
          www.svhanoverians.com

          "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

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          • #6
            Well I have had two Sagnol foals in the past and they have been two of my nicest foals EVER! I have a 3rd Sagnol coming this year and will definitely breed to him again in the future. Both have had steller personalities and wonderful movement. Not to mention I also have a Sir Gregory (who also has Sandro Hit in his pedigree) foal coming this year as well so still a big fan of that line myself!
            Cindy's Warmbloods
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            • #7
              I love my Stedinger mare. I just really don't have the right mares for to breed to an "S" at this point. I'm so incredibly pleased with my Stedinger mare, and she is really my only experience with handling an "S" daily, etc. What an absolutely wonderful temperament, with conformation and movement that is very nice. Her damline has is Weltmeyer/ Donnerhall/ Akzent II though, so there are proven stallions back there too.

              If I had the right mare, I wouldn't hesitate to use one of the more proven SH sons (Stedinger, Sir Donnerhall).

              I think that maybe part of the problem is that there is SO MUCH Sandro Hit blood. Breeders need to start outcrossing again because of the huge concentration of SH.
              Making Your Ambitions a Reality at Secret Ambition Stables.
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              • #8
                ok, I am probably going to get flamed for saying this . . . I do think that SH has been overused in Oldenburg and would be happy to see the pendulum swing back to F,R,D and B stallions. That said . . . I am breeding to a SH son for the first time this year, Sir Donnerhall. For this particular mare, I am looking for all those qualities Donella mentioned, more knee, dark coat, long legs. My mare has a good hind end and a good walk, so I am willing to take a risk.
                I have been watching some CDI dressage shows from Germany on Clip my horse recently. I love that website because it shows you the first three generation of stallions in every horse's pedigree. It became very apparent, that there is very little SH blood at the FEI levels. I saw one SH horse in a PSG class, but otherwise there was a LOT of Donnerhall blood, and a good bit of R, F and W and some B (mostly Breitling offspring). In some classes, half of the horses were from the Donnerhall line. It really got me thinking about my stallion choices and my breeding goals. If I want to sell a foal or a fancy young horse prospect, SH and sons seem like a great place to go. If I want to produce a really rideable Grand Prix horse, I'd better stick to Donnerhall and Rubinstein, with some Florestan, Weltmeyer and Bolero thrown in there (and lucky for me I have all of those lines in the mares I own, yeah!).
                www.saraalberni.com

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Forte View Post
                  I have been watching some CDI dressage shows from Germany on Clip my horse recently. I love that website because it shows you the first three generation of stallions in every horse's pedigree. It became very apparent, that there is very little SH blood at the FEI levels. I saw one SH horse in a PSG class, but otherwise there was a LOT of Donnerhall blood, and a good bit of R, F and W and some B (mostly Breitling offspring). In some classes, half of the horses were from the Donnerhall line. It really got me thinking about my stallion choices and my breeding goals. If I want to sell a foal or a fancy young horse prospect, SH and sons seem like a great place to go.
                  this.
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                  • #10
                    It's all that knee action that makes him so popular. No other stallion stamps that action like Sandro Hit does. IMO.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Forte View Post
                      ok, I am probably going to get flamed for saying this . . . I do think that SH has been overused in Oldenburg and would be happy to see the pendulum swing back to F,R,D and B stallions. ....
                      not getting flamed at all :-)
                      totally back what you are saying.
                      SH is a perfect foal maker and as such enjoyed huge popularity from breeding for "fast" money sales. but foal sales have calmed down dramatically (backed by the economic crises of the last years) and breeding figures still undergo a heavy correction (minus 20-30% in the second year) sale has shifted back to riding horses.
                      the hannoverian verband has run analysis about sales and "buying" behaviour of their clientel and came up with some convincing studies.
                      the issue is being talked about in nearly every verbands magazin and much more so subject to most of their verbands/local breeders meetings. everybody speaks about the sake lies in serving the riding/sport horse market rather than foal sales.
                      riding horse qualities however differ completely from foal sales.
                      focus is shifting back to proven ridability, specially when it comes to beyond-young-horse-classes. s.th. many SHs still are succeesfull in if they meet on a suitable rider. however, real sport horse qualities (with respect to dressage) start when collection is demanded (6yr old classes and elder) and this is not necessary what SH provides for for two reasons:
                      ridability and walk.
                      whith the third generation of SHs on the ground (his elder sons meanwhile also providing for the first generation of elder riding horses, 6years+) the ridability has improved in many of these grandkids, however, the walk issue in many of them still proves to be an annoying issue since it often is being passed on dominantely. stedinger and sirD probably the two most prominent examples to prove this theses, simply since they enjoyed big breeding figures in the first years, thus, conclusions being drawn from their progenies are somewhat reliable since they are backed by reliable numbers.
                      so i completely back what you are saying:
                      breeder's focus has moved to the "reliable" (proven) lines you have mentioned.

                      however, i have used an SH son last year (sarkozy) for reasons of outspoken walk and hopefully interieur/ridability. but you never know if they really embody these features until their first get is under saddle since you simply can't judge any of the stallions ridden by PS people since his riders are outspoken professionals and make any horse look "decent" and suitable under saddle.
                      so i am looking forward to this foal with mixed emotions, hoping for the best but expecting anything up until i know better in three years from now. long way to go, even for sarkozy, in order to overcome his sire's critical influence.
                      exactly the reason i choose a rock solid proven sire on my other mare, don schufro, and i can't wait for that foal being born.
                      breeding extremes, i guess, and i hope it works.
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                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by hessy35 View Post
                        It's all that knee action that makes him so popular. No other stallion stamps that action like Sandro Hit does. IMO.
                        More than just the knee action, though. As Donella pointed out, SH gives "beautiful front end mechanics, lovely types with long legs, excellent canters and often a dark coat."

                        And Fannie Mae pointed out the REAL issue - the foal market is WAY down, the emphasis is on producing riding horses again, and the walk/rideability/temperament of the SH horses is not generally conducive to upper level work. I remember mentioning the rideability/temperament issue some years ago on this forum - i.e., that the SH horses often can't handle the mental stress when the work gets tough. They either act out or shut down, so the SH blood needs to be paired with horses from lines with very good work ethics and who can and will press forward even when the work is difficult.

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                        • #13
                          OK, I have to step in here. My stallion, Shakespeare RSF is the best horse I have produced in 30 years of breeding. His rideability is a 12- he tries harder to please his rider than any other horse I have ever known. He is only 7, and the beginnings of the three p's are there in a high quality way. His free walk is an 8. His collected walk is a 6, but not worse than that. We just don't school the collected walk that much. I don't think that is an unusual practice. His foals are very consistant and homogenous in type and movement and all are sweeties to deal with on the ground, just like their father. The oldest are only coming 2, so I can only hope that they are as good to ride as Shakespeare is. We just imported an Oldenburg licensed Sir Donnerhall son, 3 years old, who so far shows a wonderful willingness to work and a very well balanced, uphill tendency under saddle. His walk could be bigger, but it is pure. His canter is amazing. Go look at the videos of them on my website. I am high on these two Sandro Hit bred horses. We also stand a G line stallion and he is rarely used by mare owners anymore. My Florencio stallion produces much better than himself, so I also use him.
                          The real issue is that ever since transported and frozen semen became the norm, everyone breeds to the same popular horses, so the gene pool just keeps getting smaller and smaller. I am breeding to a few Dutch stallions this year to try and broaden the genetic diversity of my herd, but it will be hard not to breed a lot of my mares to my favorite boys in my back yard :-). If I bred jumpers, I would be using some Holsteiner stallions. I keep waiting for the next superstar stallion with outcross bloodlines. It is getting harder and harder to find a high quality stallion that is an outcross from the popular bloodlines. It's just the way it is.....
                          http://www.rollingstonefarm.com
                          Large Oldenburg and Hanoverian breeding farm
                          Standing Shakespeare RSF, Fhitzgerald, Sir James and the homebred stallion Dheputy.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for the post, Fannie Mae.

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                            • #15
                              As a rider Sandro Hit is a line I actively avoid. There are too few at GP compared to the number of foals he has sired and too many that are difficult when it comes to the collected work. Add to that the problems with the walk and also the difficulties with the changes some have (this seems to pass on too, I've seen it in some grandsons of his) SH just isn't the type of horse I want to put the time into training.

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                              • #16
                                Not all Sandro Hit line horses have a bad walk. I'll post a video of my nearly 3 year old (Sinatra Song) later tonight or tomorrow. Walk and canter are her best gaits and trot isn't bad. She's going through a growth stage at the moment but I'll show her off anyway.

                                She does have a very strong dam line for excellent walks. G-dam had a 10 walk, dam has a 9 so I think the key to getting a good SH line walk is through the dam line. At least that's how it worked out with my girl.

                                Walk: note my husband is not a professional horse handler. lol
                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQyOIuiiDSI

                                Trot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6x8Fg4fwK4

                                Canter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJjnqLm7jfU
                                Last edited by back in the saddle; Mar. 23, 2011, 09:25 PM.
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                                • #17
                                  Fannie Mae, you have a PM

                                  Like the title says

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by stolensilver View Post
                                    As a rider Sandro Hit is a line I actively avoid. There are too few at GP compared to the number of foals he has sired and too many that are difficult when it comes to the collected work. Add to that the problems with the walk and also the difficulties with the changes some have (this seems to pass on too, I've seen it in some grandsons of his) SH just isn't the type of horse I want to put the time into training.
                                    And I can think of a number of FEI trainers in my area that would agree with you. That said, I think that SH has his place in the breeding shed. I think that some of his sons and grandsons will be better producers than him, Sir Donnerhall and Sir Gregory come to mind.
                                    www.saraalberni.com

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                                    • #19
                                      I've been planning to use either him or one of his sons for my mare next season. I know temperament/mind issues but I want a refining stallion with some height and he seems to fit the bill.

                                      I don't see how it can be said that D and R ever went out of fashion, indeed to me they seem to be the cornerstone horses for so many. I absolutely love my two with those lines, they're worth their weight in gold but my Rubinstein line mare, as much as I adore her, could use some extra ... spark ... and I feel Sandro Hit or a son (I do love Sarkozy but a friend had three misses with the semen this season so I'm cautious) could definitely give her that extra pazazz.

                                      I would love to use Diamond Hit but I don't see him as a refining stallion. Royal Hit adds some refinement and the Royal Hits are lovely, lovely foals ... but I would not use him!

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                                      • #20
                                        Perhaps his OFFSPRING will be great sires of international GP horses?

                                        it does seem that Sandro Hit, as compared with sires of the same age (say De Niro), has not produced many international stars....Sandrino - although Jan Ebling has dropped her back to the small tour.

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