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    Thank you everyone for your replies. I have defiantly come to the conclusion that my first instinct was correct and it can be very dangerous. My mares me the world to me and I give them more credit for their foals then the stallion. If anything happened to one of them because of a bad decision, I would be absolutely devastated! I have not bred some mare in the past because I felt they would not be happy as a mother, so I do have the mares’ best interest in mind. I don’t think I would ever have the heart to breed my mare to that 15.1 hand stallion, but did want other opinions and information. Thank you again everyone.
    Last edited by poniesforlife; Mar. 22, 2008, 11:15 PM.

  • #2
    How small is she and what are you trying to get out of the breeding? Have people done it? yes. Can it be dangerous? YES, you can lose the mare and the foal. There are probably a number of Welsh/TB stallions around. Try to find something a little closer to her size and type.
    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
    Now apparently completely invisible!


    • #3
      Interesting that you posted this. I know someone who just bred a small (13.2h) Welsh mare to a 16.2h WB stallion. And yes, I think she is crazy. I guess we'll see.


      • #4
        We always crossed a larger mare with a small pony stallion. I know vets say the mare determines the size of a foal, but we always tried to cross mares with a stallion close to their size or smaller.

        I do know of some backyard-breeder neighbors that had a 16 h stallion get in with a shetland mare. She safely produced a foal from that cross, but the whole idea scares me!
        ~ A true friend knows all there is to know about you and still likes you. -E. Hubbard


        • #5
          I worry more about what the end result might look like! What if you get pony legs and the warmblood body! I remember a school pony that looked like some one crossed a draft on a pony. He was so ugly, he was cute, but I doubt he was worth much money.


          • #6
            What everyone should worry about is the safety of the mare.

            Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver Equine Insurance Specialist


            • #7
              Originally posted by poniesforlife View Post
              I have noticed more and more farms breeding small ponies to thoroughbred and warmblood stallions. Does anyone have and input or experience with this cross. I have a small pony mare that I have thought of breeding to a TB stallion but it just seems dangerous.
              Go with your gut feeling here-- it IS dangerous. I would not do it.
              There are enough things that can go wrong with a well-thought out pregnancy/birth. Why increase the risks? Not worth it. If you are set on a bigger foal--then get a different mare to breed.

              How big is your pony? There are a number of large pony crossbred & 14.3 size stallions that can upsize your mare for you. Your thread on Favorite pony hunter stallions should give you a great starting place. There are a lot of nice replies. If it were me, first foal--I would go with a medium size stallion.
              Windswept Stables-Specializing in Ponies
              Sales, Breaking,Training,Showing, Stud Service

              Home of 2008 Sire of Year Reserve Champion
              Pony Hunter Breeding - Empires Power



              • #8
                I know of someone's "accident" of a 16h TB stallion and a small welsh pony mare who got turned out together & came in foal as a result

                In this particular case, wound up being a 14.1 large pony with the narrow, TBy but short pony-sized pony and a HUGE head. Not about to win any model classes, but super talented...jumps a 12!!

                I wouldn't recommend it; I don't think you can count on the results being a happy medium, nor can you be sure it will be without complication for a smaller mare.


                • #9
                  One of my breeders bred her small Welsh pony mare to Nevada (Dutch/TB) who is barely 16h. The baby is super, and an incredible jumper, but unfortunately was 14.3 as a barely 3 year old. Luckily still growing. <grow, baby grow!>
                  Attached Files


                  • #10
                    Listen to Vets horror stories of foals being cut out of their mothers because they could not be born and you would never attempt such a thing.

                    Why EVER take a chance??
                    hunter/jumper ponies


                    • #11
                      I value the lives of my mares too much to EVER put them in that kind of jeopardy. Foaling is scary enough as it is, without adding something like that to the mix.
                      Family Partners Welsh Ponies - Home of Section B Welsh stallion *Wedderlie Mardi Gras LOM/AOE http://www.welshponies.com
                      Click here to buy: A Guide To In Hand Showing of Your Welsh Pony


                      • #12
                        I bred a 13.2 pony to a 15.2 Friesian and she just delivered a healthy foal with no problems. I have heard the rule of thumb is no more than 2 hands difference.


                        • #13
                          There was a study done about the mare controlling the size of the offspring, ( at Colorado State or Texas A & M I think) using pony mares bred to Draft stallions. The study proved that the mares does control the size of the foal... but I could never in good conscience breed up in a big way , as I know of foals too big out of full horse mares bred to smaller horse stallions..

                          In the case of Miniature horses there is a much higher rate of foals too large than in regular ponies or horses..
                          "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
                          Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
                          Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
                          Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB


                          • #14
                            People get all freaky about breeding a pony to a horse, but a lot of folks are perfectly happy to breed their 15 hand mare to a 17.2 stallion. Not much difference than breeding a 14 hand to 16.2, or a 13 hand to 16 etc. I have known of very few breedings like this that ended up with any problems, and feel the risk is no more than the risk associated with any breeding. Now would I breed a SMALL pony to a 17+ hand WB or TB? Well no cause I'd probably get a hony! But to a reasonable size (16 hand or less) probably wouldn't bother me.


                            • #15
                              The only "size type" dystocias I have ever had were when the mare and stallion were within a hand, but the stallion was VERY heavy boned and wide, and when the mare was the same size as the stallion, and similar type. The rest were position problems.


                              • #16
                                Way simpler, cheaper and less risky to buy a nice yearling that'll be the size you want...
                                Barb Young
                                equine photography in western CO USA


                                • Original Poster

                                  Originally posted by jherold View Post
                                  I worry more about what the end result might look like! What if you get pony legs and the warmblood body! I remember a school pony that looked like some one crossed a draft on a pony. He was so ugly, he was cute, but I doubt he was worth much money.
                                  There are many large ponies in the hunter ring who are WB or TB Welsh crosses. However most are from TB or WB mares by smaller stallions.
                                  Last edited by poniesforlife; Mar. 20, 2008, 11:54 PM.


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by jherold View Post
                                    I worry more about what the end result might look like! What if you get pony legs and the warmblood body! I remember a school pony that looked like some one crossed a draft on a pony. He was so ugly, he was cute, but I doubt he was worth much money.
                                    Crossing two breeds doesn't always mean you get the average of the two animals. I've seen the product of a draft x pony. The poor thing had the body (including height/weight) of the mare and the head (including size) of the draft. It was a hideous looking pony who's head was probably at least 1/5 of his body weight. Hard to imagine him staying sound or having a good life.


                                    • Original Poster

                                      Thank you everyone for your replies! She will be bred to a 14.2 hand stallion this year. The TB stallion I was looking to breed her to, is 15.1, so not a huge difference in the stallions sizes. I breed larger mares to small stallions so I really haven’t had much experience with upsizing! She is 12 years and has had quite a few foals in the past. I hope this answers some of your questions. I do LOVE her dearly this is why I have not yet listened to the people who told me it will be fine and why I posted this thread.


                                      • #20
                                        Glad to hear you're going with a large pony stallion. The problem with even a 15.1h stallion is - what's in his background? What size foal does HE produce? It's not always the size of the stallion himself, but what's in the background and what he produces. A 15.1h stallion MAY produce small, but he may also produce very large foals that don't grow too tall, or he may produce reasonably sized foals that grow tall. You need to ask a lot of questions when it's the mare that is the small one.
                                        Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
                                        Now apparently completely invisible!